Hair length

[Moobaloo]

Hello

Long time lurker on this board. I have something niggling in my brain at the moment.

I have a toddler DS. He has chin length hair. It's very cute. It gets in his eyes so I tie the top part into a topknot thing.

Naturally he gets called a girl a lot. This happens even when he's in blue/a top with a truck on but I mostly dress him in gender neutral bright colours. I have no problem with people mistaking him for a girl, it's not their fault! I just say "he's ..." Whatever they've asked.

However what has been bothering me is the constant "why haven't you cut his hair yet" "you've got to do it sometime!" "He looks like a girl!"

Pretty much all with a negative tone.

Two things: 1. What's wrong with looking like a girl? Is this some implication that being a girl is 'bad' or a negative thing? What's wrong with girls? I feel that this could promote bad stuff if slightly older boys hear this "looking like/being a girl is bad" all the time.

And the one that's really stuck in my head: since when can boys not have long hair? There are loads of men with long hair! And the biggie - I am a twenty something woman. With short hair. I have a pixie crop. I like it, it suits me. NO ONE has ever told me to grow my hair because I look like a bloke!

Anyway. I don't really know where I'm going with this.

Suggestions of answers for the people who tell me to cut his hair?!

Thanks for the rant space x

I'm completely puzzled as to why anyone needs to "ID" the gender of a toddler or young child on sight. There's no difference in how you would respond to a baby/toddler/child based on their sex. Or at least there shouldn't be!

My nephew is 2.5 and has long hair, it's looks awful because he can't see, he spends half his time putting it out of his eyes and it's all knotty. I said to his mum she should get it cut before he goes to nursery as he will be a candidate for nits! My daughter has long hair but it's always in plaits for school or a clip so it doesn't fall in her face at home. My son has short hair because it's curly and he likes it shorter. I just feel sorry for this little chap!

I'm sure his mum was very grateful for the advice.

Why is it bad for a girl to look like a boy or vice versa?

For the reasons I've just said!!! At a very young age it's about fitting it. That's all. It's really cruel to a child to do anything to it that makes it not fit in - because they have no choice.

If you want to be whacky dye your hair pink, have a ton of facial piercings and dress in an outlandish way that's your choice - but you will be out of the norm and attract attention.

For young children, this is a bad thing - because it leads to bullying, adverse comments etc.

Putting a boy in make up is unfair - its likely to lead to nasty comments, bullying and in the long term emotional damage. Dressing a boy like a girl is unfair - it's likely to lead to nasty comments etc. Same for ridiculously long hair on a boy.

The child doesn't have a choice. How can you not see the problem?

I've posted this before, but:

I used to work in a physics-heavy field where my (female) boss was once asked by a visitor, 'Why do all the girls on your team have short hair and the boys have long hair?'
She immediately replied, 'So I can tell them apart.'

But cheers isn't it a bit shit to bully kids because of their hair length?

And wouldn't it be better if instead of expecting people to keep up with arbitrary hair standards, we told our kids not to bully other kids because of their appearance?

Because if everyone did that, then none of it would matter at all.

But maybe some people think it's ok to bully people who look 'different'.
But then it's not about 'how kids react' at all.
It's about grown adults being dicks.

What about dressing a girl as a boy? Is that emotionally damaging, long term? How much like a boy is damaging - are trousers/jeans ok, with a t-shirt or must it be skirts and dresses at all times for little girls? Presumably pastels, pinks, purples etc is an appropriate colour scheme? Dressing a girl in primary colours with dinosaurs on would be wrong, yes?

Who's doing this bullying Cheers? Because it's not the kids at DS's school - the only comments I've ever had have been from adults - and adults should be ashamed of themselves if they're bullying kids.

Personally I think that it's the bullies that need to be dealt with, and people should be taught to keep their unkind comments to themselves, rather than kids be made to fit in to some narrow definition (what about Sikh boys - quite a few around here - they're allowed long hair in your world I would hope?)

Actually, the only time I've judged long hair is when it's getting in kids eyes - kids who are too young to do anything about it. Then it either needs to be pulled out of the way or cut - still the sex of the child doesn't matter at all.

Cheers - with my DS, he (not me) chose to have his hair long from about age 5 to age 7. And of course he got teased. It was an interesting experience, because I was not prepared to victim-blame. So we had discussions about whether he should cut it or not, recognising the fact that cutting it might make for an easier life but would mean losing something he was very fond of! And that when someone said something unkind they were the one at fault not him. And (very important point - imagine these conversations if your child was being teased for, say, being red-haired or having glasses) bullies bully because they want to and what they latch onto is essentially aribtrary. Sometimes it's something you can change (hair length) but why on earth should you have to. But more often than not it will be something over which you have no control. So what matters is having a range of strategies to deal with the bully (talking to teacher, getting school on side, realising it's the bully who is at fault, not victim blaming). Not conforming because that's simply the way things have always been done.

Still not getting why children need to come as readily identifiable as girls or boys. You could treat them as individuals you know. And get to know them. And you'd fairly soon find out whether they were boys or girls. (NB adults assuming DS was a girl then saying "but he has long hair" pissed him off more than children - he felt that adults should know better than to pass comment).

As a 4yo my DS had beautiful blonde shoulder length ringlets. They were glorious, and yes, I was on occasion forced to correct peoples' gender assumptions. Then one day his mother took him for a haircut without my knowledge. I was not happy, especially as she'd been answering the same questions as me and had got sick of it. 20 years on and his shoulder length ringlets have darkened a bit.

So Cheers claims a long-haired boy will be bullied and that's bad, but also describes such boys as looking "really stupid".

Teastory

They are two separate points.

My own personal opinion is indeed that little boys with long dangly hair do look utterly ridiculous. It's messy and unattractive and frequently rather revolting. Maybe because girls with long hair typically tie it back whereas boys often don't so when they are playing long hair gets in their eyes, interferes with their play and get tangled and dirty.

But then I detest long hair on adult men as well. My opinion of the aesthetics of it is totally separate to the main point which is that it is not fair to the child to make his/her appearance unconventional and outside the norm when he/she is unable to give any meaningful consent.

It's a life truth that people judge others on their appearance. Maybe it shouldn't be like that but it is and it's daft to pretend otherwise.

How can you not see the problem?

Probably Medea, because the only place there is a problem is in your head.

If children are being bullied because of the way they look, the solution is to tackle the bullying, not to zip the bullied child into a firmer sex based straight jacket. That's just sick.

In the real world, we try to change the behaviour of the bully, not their victim, given that it's the bully that's in the wrong. I really don't get how you can seriously advocate for the other way round without looking like you're victim blaming children who are bullied. Sounds all arse about face to me.

people judge others on their appearance

Yes, and if people keep conforming to what those with narrow minds/bullies perceive as 'normal' then we'll never be able to ensure that it is not like that.

My nephew had long hair from age 11-18. He eventually cut it because he wanted to. At school, he tied it back. The school tried to tell his mother that he should cut it, and she asked how many girls with long hair they'd told to get a haircut.

I'd debate longer but I'm off to dye my hair purple. I'm over 40 and it's halfway down my back. I guess I'll never be conventional.

So cheers, we should all look and behave exactly the same, so any differences can't be identified and used to bully us?

What about a kid that has hearing aids, or glasses, or has sticky out ears or a birthmark? What about the kid that has had a brain tumour and has been left with scars or facial paralysis?

You cannot stop children having differences. None will entirely fit in. Isn't it better to encourage their individuality, teach them different is good, and bullying is bad?

My child can't grow her hair long. Should I buy her a wig or get her extensions so she can fit in, or teach her to rock a pixie crop and stand up to bullies?

Bullying will persist as long as people like you minimise it by saying the victim should change to avoid being picked on, rather than the perpetrator changing their behaviour.

Btw my kid is now the one which will intervene if she suspects one child is bullying another. And guess what, she tells the bully they are wrong, not the victim that they should change.

I really don't get how you can seriously advocate for the other way round without looking like you're victim blaming children who are bullied.

Because the decision as to what appearance the child has is being made by the adult here!

The adult (knowing that we don't let live in a world of perfect non-picking on people bullying!) is choosing to put their child in that position and its just mean and unkind to do that. Fine if you want to use your child as a means to improve the world and call out bullying children and adults openly saying "is that girl"/"cut his hair" - but it's not really fair on the child at all.

In the real world, we try to change the behaviour of the bully, not their victim

Yes of course - particularly where there is eg. disability. But WHY ON EARTH choose to put a child into a class of "being a bit different" when (a) they are underage so can't actually give consent or any informed consent and (b) you know it is likely to cause adverse comments/bullying?

What just because you like the look (no matter what others think) and so you can use your child to make a point about bullies? Nice huh?

So cheers, we should all look and behave exactly the same, so any differences can't be identified and used to bully us?

Are you being deliberately thick? This is about a free choice taken by an adult as to how a child looks. It is totally different from scars/disability etc where there is no choice.

Why choose to make your child unconventional? It's not about them is it.

I don't choose to make my child look unconventional. She chooses, I support her.

Should I say to my 7 year old, no dear you can't cut your hair because people might laugh? She hates it long, it gets in her way, and she likes having short hair like her older sister.

It is about them, it's about teaching them that they don't have to fit in, and we are all different.

Every child we make fit in makes it more difficult for those that don't.

Children do make choices about their bodies and appearance from a very young age. It's not always the conventional choice.

The child in the OP is a toddler. That is not the same as a 7 year old.

Do you think that toddlers bully other toddlers because of what they look like?

Because the decision as to what appearance the child has is being made by the adult here!

Do you actually have children, because pretty much all decisions about my DS's appearance were made by them, in the same way as all my friend's children have made those choices for themselves from a really young age.

Just for info, DS2 was always going to be a bit different given his ASD and all, but thanks for recognising that he shouldn't have been bullied for that, just for his choice to not have his hair cut because he was terrified of scissors.... no victim blaming there at all....

Nice!

Why choose to make your child unconventional? It's not about them is it.

Yes, it really is. Until children learn to distrust their personal decisions about their appearance from people like you, they are unconventional, it's one of the joys of small children, seeing them before people like you knock all the joy out of them.

Oh and fwiw, I had a mother who wouldn't let me do anything "different". My childhood was all about fitting in, I wasn't allowed to chose my own clothes or hairstyle. She felt if I was like the other girls I'd have friends and a social life.

Guess what? I had no friends and no social life. I didn't fit in because i liked different things, I was basically different. I'd rather have made my own choices rather than feel like a square peg forced into a round hole. I just lost confidence in making decisions for fear of being different.

I celebrate my daughters short hair. I celebrate that she can stand up to her peers and say she doesn't want to do x, or y, so no thanks. I celebrate the fact she can say "I want to do z" without worrying that her friends won't like her.

That's a very 'the nail that stands out gets hammered' view of the world - I'm not sure you're going to be getting resilient, self reliant, confident children if you teach them that the moment someone doesn't like something about them they should change it....

And a toddler - well they really couldn't give a fig could they? Doesn't everyone have at least one picture of their kid in some crazy outfit they picked themselves for example?

Not being deliberately thick - just I don't think that it's a great example to set your children personally, especially over something as inconsequential as hair length, or misgendering by strangers.

I'm harking back to the good old days when my DC were toddlers and did as they were told.

And and well-done to Micah's DD.

Because the decision as to what appearance the child has is being made by the adult here!

And you don't see that in requiring a specific gendered appearance you are an adult forcing an appearance on the child? We all have to make decisions for our children, but this is an extreme one.

Might I ask to what lengths you are prepared to go to make your child's appearance 'fit in' rather than tackle bullying? Perhaps they should all have the same colour eyes, so they should wear coloured contact lenses? Perhaps you don't like red hair? What about the same colour skin?

Perhaps a little extreme, but I am really really uncomfortable with where that could go.

If people like Cheers have their way, then the decision how the OPs child looks should be made by random adults other than herself, who have no knowledge of her son's preferences.

Conventions change (used to be little boys had long hair and wore dresses) - the convention that children should have a particular length of hair based on their gender is one that's (thankfully) on the wane.