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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Please tell me this isn't a "thing"? "Feminist" man related.

51 replies

BertrandRussell · 26/05/2015 09:00

My dad is just finishing her first year at university. She has had a great time except for two pretty disastrous relationships- both with men who called themselves feminists, and who talked a good talk. She trusted them much faster than she would have done if they had not sounded so politically and socially aware. And they both then treated her just as badly as an old fashioned "unreconstructed" man might. Please tell me this is not a new thing- men using being "feminist" as a way to get more notches on the bedpost? Sad

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pinkyredrose · 26/05/2015 09:03

Assuming you meant DD! No I don't think it's a 'thing'. I think your daughter has had a learning curve in finding out that not everyone means what they say.

whitecandles · 26/05/2015 09:08

I don't think they consciously do it. I just think some people are full of themselves and think everything about them is great.

All the self proclaimed feminist guys I know are sexist assholes who talk over me and try to tell me what I should think about feminism.

Trusting people based on their deeds not their words is a good life lesson, I guess.

Athenaviolet · 26/05/2015 09:16

Oh yes, I know a vocal 'male feminist' who thinks it's ok to tell rape jokes! Hmm

Judge them by their actions not their words.

There are young men who have cottoned on to the fact that the 'I'm a feminist' line gets girls into bed (to put it bluntly).

I'll tell dd to be wary.

sausageeggbacon11 · 26/05/2015 09:20

Many men are now realising that acting like they are SJWs works better than behaving normally. Learning to use the word patriarchy and objectification. Once guys realise it is a faster way to get what they want they will use it. DS1 has picked up enough about feminist theory from me talking about these boards that he could use it, not saying he would but he certainly understands the principles and will be at University in the near future (depending on results). Bit of the reverse from me pretending to like sport to get in with XH which is even stranger because my boys have got me really into sport.

If we like someone we find out what they like and often will use that knowledge to get closer to them. OP if your DD was open about her feminist attitude then she runs the risk of men who are reasonably educated using information about feminism to get in with her.

AlternativeTentacles · 26/05/2015 09:22

It's a learning curve, life - isn't it?

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 26/05/2015 09:27

She was so excited about meeting men who sounded as if they shared her views.....I did try to warn her to be careful...

Oh well, as you say, learning curve!

But it does seem particularly despicable somehow.

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shaska · 26/05/2015 09:29

Ugh, unfortunately this is absolutely a thing. Not intentionally ime- like not a calculated 'I'm a prick but I'm going to pretend I'm a feminist haHA' way but in a way where they think they actually are feminists and good men when actually they're just your average losers.

Though from what I remember student days were a bit like that- trying on different ideologies without actually committing to them. It's a bit sad if feminism is akin to veganism in the student mind, but then for a 21 year old man it probably is, in a lot of ways. And with the whole tumblr/social justice thing I expect it is a bit fashionable to be a feminist.

I'd say sadly it's probably best for your dd to grow a bit of mistrust for what partners say and focus on what they do. Sympathies to her and you though.

shaska · 26/05/2015 09:31

Loads of cross posts cos I'm a slowpoke.

girlgamergoesbad · 26/05/2015 09:35

I think it's commonplace enough to be a thing, I think boys at the age are quite adept in the sense they can work out what will make girls like them. Your poor dd, although I suppose we all have to learn lessons and she's still got 2 years left of uni to meet good people and have good experiences, she'll get over it eventually if she hasn't already!

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 26/05/2015 09:36

I think one of them was like that- sort of trying on feminism like I tried on being a members of the Socialist Worker's Party. But the second one it really sounds as it was a deliberate "play". And I can imagine if you were 19 it would be very exciting to meet a man who you thought shared all your ideals. And I reckon you wouldn't actually have to do very much to look like a feminist in action as well. Just like changing one nappy turns a man into a fantastic, hands on dad!

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NotCitrus · 26/05/2015 09:39

I suspect half these young men are believing their own words, too - so the treating badly is unconscious rather than calculated. Which doesn't make things better now but makes it more likely they'll grow up and become better.
As my grandpa would say, watch out for people who are "all say's, no do's" whether it's partners or the colleague who always goes on about how busy they are.

rookiemere · 26/05/2015 09:47

My nearly 30 year old nephew likes to think of himself as an enlightened man and puts posts on FB on how dreadful female circumcision is and other such things.

Doesn't stop him on holiday from (probably unconsciously) thinking that having a penis makes him exempt from menial tasks such as cooking, cleaning, stacking the dishwasher or tidying up after himself and that as a middle aged person with a vagina I should be delighted to take on these menial tasks for him and indeed be grateful for the opportunity. To be honest I almost prefer other nephew who called my DH pussy whipped ( because I try to get DH to do some of the chores on holiday and not go out walking with his nephews more than 2 full days in a week) for at least being honest about what he thinks.

Can you tell that I find extended family holidays a bit of a trial ?

I guess no-one likes to think of themselves as an unreconstructed dinosaur and only the very dim witted male these days would come outright with non pc views, however the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so your DD is just learning to trust people by their actions and not their words.

Anniegetyourgun · 26/05/2015 10:16

It is absolutely a thing, and a well documented thing at that. As usual Lundy Bancroft has him nailed with the Mr Sensitive type. I've even discovered on a very quick Google that it has a name: Macktivist

Basically some guys will say whatever it takes to get laid. Just think how many say they're single! It's also been fairly often mentioned that narcissists are very good at reflecting their victim's tastes and qualities in the early stages of a relationship. Unless you're an adept red flag spotter, which takes more life experience than your average university student will have, the only way to find out whether an apparently lovely guy also walks the walk is to date but keep your eyes and ears open.

Anniegetyourgun · 26/05/2015 10:22

... actually I've just read to the end of that Macktivism article and it's rather good. It reinforces the point that's often debated on FWR about male allies who may not be as helpful as they think they are and criticises the NAMALT defence.

shaska · 26/05/2015 10:59

I guess as well, it took me til my late 20s to really start to think properly about feminism, despite having been 'a feminist' my entire life. And I'm a woman! I'm not sure there are many student age men who'd be capable of genuinely understanding, let alone having their actions reflect that. Not that it's an excuse but I think it's probably good to exercise caution, no matter how good the talk is.

Plus, of course, the age old adage, likely not so much applicable here but still: you can be a feminist and still be an arsehole.

grimbletart · 26/05/2015 11:42

Tell her not to mistake a man being left wing for being a feminist. Left wingers are some of the worst sexist dinosaurs still walking the earth. A quick read of Doris Lessing will confirm that! In feminism terms left-wing does not mean progressive.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 26/05/2015 11:56

She's heard me ranting along those lines all her life, grimbletart- also atheists and sceptics so her eyes are pretty open on that score.

It was the outward acceptance of feminism and feminist principles then behaving like a mysogynist oaf that threw her. Like realising that there's no Father Christmas.Sad

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AnyFucker · 26/05/2015 12:07

Oh yes, it's a thing to the point where I actually automatically distrust a man that loudly announces he is a "feminist"

it's often code for "suck my cock, but first listen to me tell you how to do feminism"

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 26/05/2015 12:11

If it wasn't my dd it's almost be funny. The first one said "you choose a film" so she chose "Far from the Madding Crowd"

A couple of days later I asked her about the film and she said "oh, we ended up seeing Mad Max in the end".....

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PrettyInPinkPan · 26/05/2015 14:51

It's def. a thing, and has been for decades and decades, and often it isn't the 'unconscious' thing either. As a party to 'all male' exchanges (how do I otherwise avoid 'speaking as a man'???) it was fairly rife, when I used to actually go out and socialise many times per week...but as has been mentioned upthread, it's a common technique of 'managing' someone, with sex and 'feminist cookies' chucked in.

Yes lesson learned, and not repeated.

TeiTetua · 26/05/2015 16:24

There are various reasons why one should never have sex with someone one doesn't know well. "Know well" might include watching that person in action in various company, and seeing how s/he behaves. Maybe in a university setting, after the first year people will have picked up a reputation.

I've also heard "You can tell if a man likes women when you see how he treats his mother" but that's probably hard to achieve for students.

MavisG · 26/05/2015 17:02
  • Suck my cock, but first let me tell you how to do feminism -

Yes! And brilliantly put.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 26/05/2015 17:22
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LassUnparalleled · 26/05/2015 18:30

I'm not a teenager /young women but I would be postively put off by any man who told me he was a feminist. Why would he need to tell me that? I assume that any man is at least my equal and professionally I'm senior to many.

Actions speak far louder than words. I also agree lefties are far worse.

AnyFucker · 26/05/2015 18:49

Sorry, BR

I gotta tell it like it is Grin