What do you think of this...(possible rape)

[differentnameforthis]

Now I think this is rape. I appear to be a lone voice however, as most are calling those who fell for this stupid.

Opinions?

Rape?

Outraged, consent is continuous ongoing and can be withdrawn at any point. If someone leaves the room and someone else comes in, you could argue that the wife should lift her blindfold just in case of a switch, as she is otherwise giving consent to the body in the room by her voice and touch.

'outraged "do you think it can only be rape if someone has been pinned down after saying no?" It's a genuine question.'

I think rape is sex without consent. Either because the person has said 'No' or because the person is unable to consent because they are scared/asleep/drunk/drugged/not mentally able/too young etc.

I don't think rape covers situations where a mentally competent adult consents to sex and then discovers that their sexual partner has not been honest with them. I think when you consent to sex with someone you do so in the knowledge that you are giving 'uninformed consent'. You are consenting to have sex with them at that time and you accept the level of knowledge you have about them at that time. Information discovered afterwards cannot be used to withdraw consent after the act.

I don't think anyone considers this man to be 'decent'. I certainly don't and have not suggested that I do anywhere on this thread, What he did was horrible, but it doesn't make it rape. Maybe there should be a 'sex by deception' offence or something similar, but it is not rape. Not imo.

I have to go and actually do some things in real life unfortunately

I'm not ignoring any questions.

It mentions in one article he's getting charged for "rape by surprise". I think it's rape. I hope he is convicted.

I didn't meant to imply you (or anyone) thought he was decent. I should have said "most men wouldn't" instead.

'You've quoted me to support your views Outraged but I really disagree with you'

I know! I agree totally with your definition and yet it leads us to two different conclusions!

'she had consented to a different physical human who wasn't there in that room. I don't think that the fact that the person she actually consented to was fictional'

That surely is contradictory? How can he be a physical human AND fictional? He can't. She consented to the person in the room and she did so without looking to see who that was. She consented to the person that she arranged to meet. He didn't look as he described himself, but it was the same person that she was chatting with online. What he said online was all lies, but it was not a separate person.

If someone has sex whilst under the witness protection scheme, without revealing who they really are, are they a rapist then?

Or is the key detail here that he didn't look like he said he did? If he used a correct photograph, but lied about every other aspect of himself (name, age, marital status, religion, hobbies etc.) would that be ok? Or would that be rape?

When I say 'would that be ok', I mean 'would that be legal', rather than 'would that be an ok way to behave'.

I hope that was clear, but just in case it wasn't.

"Had she known which body was going to penetrate her, she wouldn't have agreed. I really think this negates her consent."

I think this is a succinct statement of the position.

Still yet to see an answer to the question of of a scenario where the picture was of him but just him 40 years ago. Would that be rape?

Or how about the if he was better looking in a picture, but after the sex, and the blindfold coming off he looks nothing like the picture but it turns out the picture is him, just that hes had an accident since? Or maybe not sheven in a long time? Different haircut? Basically the same person but just no longer looks like what he used to?

None of those things should be in the slightest bit acceptable.

The fact that we are even debating them tells you why George Galloway can talk about rape as "bad sexual etiquette"

We can test and stretch this already very unusual case to death; unfortunately, tens of thousands of rapists are going free who have had sex without the consent of a woman who was seeing them and not consenting.

Do people sit around dissecting whether it's fraud if you say you need money for your sick child if your child is actually sick but their treatment is already funded?

Feeling quite nauseous now, TBH.

LittleB, this rant isn't "at" you - but your "still haven't heard" post was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Littleboltonn you don't have much posting history at all on here so I don't know whether you are asking a genuine question or attempting a 'gotcha', but why does it matter what the answer to that question is since that's not what happened? The 'out of date photo' scenario is a far greyer area than the actual scenario of photo of completely different man.

Sorry just to clarify I do believe what this man did was some kind of offence however not sure if its rape, not throwing a straw man just find it quite interesting as someone who has used dating sites and have met people in person, its not exactly rare to find someone using a more flattering photo that they no longer look like.

I.e. A man who looks who might have a picture of him pre-bald, would he be classes as someone using decieption to get sex?

Could anyone answer this question? Is it rape to use a picture of yourself that you no longer look like and did this same as this man did with a blindfold? Presuming that the women are consenting to the man in the picture who could now have serious scars, balding, missing eye ect ect

"Could anyone answer this question? Is it rape to use a picture of yourself that you no longer look like and did this same as this man did with a blindfold? Presuming that the women are consenting to the man in the picture who could now have serious scars, balding, missing eye ect ect"

Why is it so important to know?

The legal answer is that it should go to court and be tested, and case law established. I might think a 10 year out of date photo is not on but 5 years is ok. You might think only photos 20 years or more are significant enough. No one can definitively answer your question.

And the number of women worldwide who have ever had blindfolded sex with someone they've never clapped eyes on before when that person has in some significant way deceived them about his appearance? Vs the number of women raped TODAY in this country alone, by their partners or friends or dates or strangers?

Do you see my point?

littleboltonn - there is a world of difference between posting a picture of yourself when you were younger, prettier, thinner, blonder etc and posting a picture of someone else! And I agree with Yonic, there's something very odd about devising a whole slew of very unlikely hypothetical borderline cases, when rape is something that happens to actual people. All. The. Time.

Would people think differently if it was actually a photo of HIM when he was much younger?

TBF there have been just as many hypotheticals from those who believe it is rape.

Derek/Mary
Stranger in a cupboard
Husband has an evil twin

It's not accurate and therefore not a fair point to suggest that the hypothetical discussion are coming all from people with the view that it was not rape.

The title of the tread/OP was 'do you think this is rape?'. It's hardly surprising that the content of the thread involves people discussing whether it's rape or not. And it's not 'was this a crime' or 'should this be a crime' it was 'is this rape'.

Buffy - interesting question. A lot of these discussions feel a bit like theological nitpicking to me. "Is it a sin to eat meat on a Friday if I don't realise it's a Friday?"

IME a lot of people find the idea of rape being anything other than forcible rape difficult to get their heads around. After all, the only thing that distinguishes rape from sex (an act involving two willing partners) is consent. It's often just one word that turns a relatively common and hopefully pleasurable act into a crime. But the problem is that so many people focus on the question of "Am I or am I not committing a crime? And can I be punished?" whereas the question ought to be "am I or am I not taking away another person's sexual autonomy?"

I don't think Buffy was having a go at you in particular, Leeds, it's an interesting question. Do you think that these hypotheticals come up on a regular basis wrt other crimes?

If you agree to have sex, blindfolded, with someone you have never met I think you leave yourself in a very vulnerable position. I don't agree that this is rape, the women should have investigated who their consensual sexual partner was more thoroughly before entering into this encounter?

Honestly, I think they may do on a thread entitled 'was this stealing?' or 'was this GBH?'.

I don't normally post in this section, so I can't comment on what generally happens, but on a thread specifically started to discuss whether this was rape or not I don't think it's surprising that people are discussing their views on whether they think it's rape or not.

Both sides of the argument have used ridiculous and unlikely hypotheticals. I think in some cases they are helpful to illustrate a point, find out exactly what the other person's view is. For example, it seems that the issue for Buffy was that hephysically* misrepresented himself, but that other forms of misrepresentation would not constitute rape. I think that's an interesting argument, but not one I agree with.