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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Being told to smile more at work

36 replies

milesofsmiles · 05/05/2015 22:13

I'm a long time lurker on these boards and wanted to vent after getting some feedback at work.
Lots of it valid but one bit in particular has really angered me!

One of the points was along the lines of "can't think of any areas to develop but she could smile more". I can't imagine it being said about a man. Or the manager of any male colleagues taking it seriously and talking to me about attitude - like my manager did!

It has really pissed me off!

OP posts:
0x530x610x750x630x79 · 05/05/2015 22:18

Are you customer facing? As that makes a difference really.

UnsolvedMystery · 05/05/2015 22:24

Smiling can make a huge difference in some jobs - male and female.
It really depends on what the job is.

PoppyBlossom · 05/05/2015 22:28

If it's a customer facing role or you are representative of the company (reception or pa type of work) then I think it's important. I've worked in places where it's been said to male and female colleagues for this reason.

I also think even if it isn't a public facing role, there's nothing wrong with being considered polite and friendly by your colleagues.

queenofthepirates · 05/05/2015 22:33

I am a manager and I would not hesitate to ask my male and female staff to greet customers in a warm and amiable fashion. Non customer facing staff may do as they please.

VacheEspanol · 05/05/2015 22:37

Not customer facing. A senior managerial role in a large, complex company.

Perhaps your immediate responses are part of the problem. I'm not viewed as the same level as my male counterparts. I couldn't imagine a scenario when the person who gave the feedback would say the same about my male colleagues. Or would think that it's appropriate feedback for a senior manager to give or receive.

I think that if it was about being polite or friendly then I wouldn't have a problem about it. Much of the rest of the review was actually about how approachable people find me. Its not an attitude problem.

Maybe this was the wrong place to post this - I just wanted to get it off my chest.

Jackieharris · 05/05/2015 22:42

I get this.

I just don't do big wide smiles (comes from a history of bad teeth/braces I tried to hide which just formed into a lifelong habit).

0x530x610x750x630x79 · 05/05/2015 22:52

"Your immediate responses are part of the problem"

No we just wanted to know the parameters, people have said they have said this to both male and female staff members, pointing out it IS said to male members of staff, so in some cases NOT sexist at all.

Customer facing roles can be incredibly high level, top sales staff for example.

If this is how you react to people questioning you, maybe that is the problem.

0x530x610x750x630x79 · 05/05/2015 22:56

Just mentioned this to my husband and he said he has been asked to smile more at work, as in his management role it was seen as nice for the managers to look like they are enjoying themselves as the happy atmosphere trickles down.

BeakyMinder · 05/05/2015 23:10

Of course it's sexist - it's the classic double bind for women, if we are competent then we're not nice enough (cold calculating bitch ...) but if we're nice then we must be incompetent (she's very sweet, but ... ) There is a ridiculously narrow window to get it 'right' and men never have to walk this tightrope.

I'm not sure of the best response though. As in keeping with the above shitty rules, you're going to have to find a way to challenge the unconscious bias behind this feedback without simply confirming their idiotic perception that you are unfriendly. Could you ask for more information, in a friendly but curious and persistent way: ie 'could you explain the reasoning behind this?' 'are there any particular negative consequences to my not smiling that I need to be aware of?' 'How do I compare to other team members, eg Richard doesn't smile much either does he? Did he get the same feedback?'

Ironically, these sorts of bastard loaded questions tend to be all the more powerful when accompanied by a really sweet smile. Which of course proves your point ...

VacheEspanol · 05/05/2015 23:15

0x530 my comment came across badly. What I meant was that the immediate responses were assumptions that this was about a customer facing role. Yes in some customer facing role not smiling wouldn't be appropriate and I would expect a manager to discuss this with a member of staff.

However, this isn't my situation. I should have clarified and given more information.

Several of us at the same level have received feedback over the last week or so. From various conversations with my peers, I'm the only one who has been told that I'm doing an excellent job, exceeding expectations, no immediate development needs etc.

But I'm also the only one where the smile more comment was made. And the only woman.

It does smack of sexism to me.

VacheEspanol · 05/05/2015 23:20

Thank you beaky. You've expressed exactly what i've been struggling to!

In the same feedback, I was told to start thinking and behaving more like other leaders in our company in order to succeed. All the examples given were men. I was essentially told to abandon any "feminine" traits for "male" ones.

I'm paraphrasing but as you've said on one hand, I'm too sweet and need to give up any sense of decency and being too kind (!) but on the other don't become a cold hearted bitch and smile more.

VacheEspanol · 05/05/2015 23:20

Thank you beaky. You've expressed exactly what i've been struggling to!

In the same feedback, I was told to start thinking and behaving more like other leaders in our company in order to succeed. All the examples given were men. I was essentially told to abandon any "feminine" traits for "male" ones.

I'm paraphrasing but as you've said on one hand, I'm too sweet and need to give up any sense of decency and being too kind (!) but on the other don't become a cold hearted bitch and smile more.

Original poster
milesofsmiles · 05/05/2015 23:22

whoops name change fail. its me milesofsmiles / vacheEspanol

OP posts:
BeakyMinder · 05/05/2015 23:30

It sounds like you work in a pretty male dominated field then? I think this is a difficult when it comes to performance/development. Advice given by male managers might work well for men but could backfire for women.

In my experience, even really supportive male managers can screw up women's prospects - eg by being too scared to give genuine, challenging feedback.

What's your manager like?

YonicScrewdriver · 05/05/2015 23:48

It's weird feedback for sure!

DadWasHere · 06/05/2015 00:32

Not that related but the thread made me think of this:

Depends on the situation as to whether telling a woman to smile is being a dick or not. The 100% dick version is 'modify your appearance just for me for no other reason than I want you too', which is a control/diminishment mechanism. But there are legitimate times to tell anyone to smile, customer facing as was said, even issues to improve interactions and mood in the workplace. I think in the workplace, based on what I have observed, men are more instructed to change there demeanor while women are instructed to change appearance. I suppose smiles are part way between the two but I think they lie more on the appearance side of the scale.

SnotQueen · 06/05/2015 00:43

I don't like the sound of that.
Beaky has the right approach I feel. Question it. While smiling.

uglyswan · 06/05/2015 09:10

Several pp have now proffered legitimate reasons why the OP might be told to smile more. But unless I've missed something, OP, your manager - whose job it presumably is - hasn't. Wouldn't that be part of ordinary feedback? If the only advice you were given was something not directly related to your actual performance, wouldn't you expect an explanation? Because as it stands, it does sound a hell of a lot like "You are very competent and I find that unattractive. Please go back to being a woman."

PuffinsAreFictitious · 06/05/2015 09:17

Must be the month for ridiculous feedback.

Beaky has given a really good strategy for dealing with it. I might do the same with my manager, when they get back from their hols...

UptoapointLordCopper · 06/05/2015 10:09

I agree that it sounds pretty weird. I like Beaky's approach.

scallopsrgreat · 06/05/2015 10:13

Agree with Puffins - it does seem like the month for ridiculous and sexist feedback. Thankfully mine wasn't off my boss so I can basically ignore it. And it wasn't about smiling but it was about something that happens a lot in my male dominated office and I am the only one who has had it picked up on in feedback.

ciwadoll · 06/05/2015 18:19

What do you work as? If you're a PR person or a diplomatic or someone who deals with the public a lot then appropriate use of smiling would make sense.

If you work in front of a computer and don't interact with the public then it wouldn't make much sense.

And I don't think it's a gender issue.

YonicScrewdriver · 06/05/2015 19:07

I bet it's swearing, scallops!

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 06/05/2015 19:07

Females are socialised to smile much more than men.

There have been things I've seen, I'm sure, showing that women smile much more than men due to socialisation. Looking friendly, approachable, unthreatening and so forth.

Certainly men don't tell strange men they see on the street to "smile love".

A women working in a "senior managerial role in a large, complex company" getting told her performance is great but she needs to "smile more" is taking the fucking piss IMVHO.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 06/05/2015 19:09

And YY to beaky approach.

"How do I compare to other team members, eg Richard doesn't smile much either does he? Did he get the same feedback?" made me lol. be prepared to utterly bamboozle your manager Grin