Need a bit of help in talking to DP who says '.... Because I'm a man'

[PenelopePitstops]

Newish to this section so please go gentle!

Talking to DP last night about why he doesn't cry at happy stuff. He said he was an edwardian man and treats emotions like something kept hidden. This apparently harks back to the days when 'men were real men' and it's not manly to cry.

I almost saw red at this and said that women and men both feel emotions and it doesn't make you a man because you hide them. He also said that he wasn't into all this metro sexual new nan being in touch with his feminine side. i said WTF does Feminine side even mean?! Are you saying that emotions are only a female thing? He couldn't answer this.

Am I right? I think dp is ready to be educated, please give me some more things to say!

Men in the eighteenth century were expected to cry at sad things to express their deep sympathetic nature. You were a philistine and an oaf if you didn't. The boys don't cry thing is quite modern.

'Boys dont cry' was an advancement, because crying became seen as part of a man that needed to be repressed, no longer just imagined as a simple tap that could be turned off on a battlefield as needed, lest you get shot by your own side for cowardice. It evolved to be seen as a real part of the man, not a social affectation.

Feminism seems to see the 'real men dont cry' as a male mindset that is part and parcel of machismo. Its not about the physical act of crying though, even an onion will trigger that, its about the emotional openness, sensitivity and vulnerability that leads to crying. I have seen this stuff discussed at length in male forums. In my opinion this is not as male exclusive as feminists generally believe. A man who opens up emotionally is, for women, commonly seen as a desirable and positive thing if that man is their partner. Who would not want to better empathise and understand their partner, after all? But when 'men dont cry' stuff is discussed in male forums the same unwanted conclusion keeps floating to the surface, and that is while women see this as a desirable trait in a partner it is seen as an undesirable trait in choosing a partner in the first place. In other words, to find a mate, a man projects strength and sensitivity to a womans emotions but only selectively reveals his own, because crying can easily be perceived not as sensitivity but as vulnerability, and while women like to exercise sympathy and empathy for the vulnerable it seldom inspires desire for them.

Yes, there is a very British 'stiff upper lip' culture that is still alive and kicking.

I've never seen my dad cry, my DP only a couple of times, at bad news. I don't think I've ever seen a man cry at something happy.

But then I'm not really a crying person either. I don't cry at the things lots of women cry at. I think we're all socialised out of it.

I suppose that how I parent my DCs too. I tell them not to cry. I tell them crying doesn't help.

Are other cultures different?

"I think dp is ready to be educated, please give me some more things to say!"

I'm not going to do that, because I don't think it is up to one spouse to 'educate' the other about something.

You chose a fully formed human being, one who has unfortunately been imbued with rigid gender stereotypes. Yes, I'd find that an undesirable quality too. But unless he is asking to be 'educated' then this is a hiding to nowhere.

The 'men don't cry' might be true as a stereotype, but so is 'I'll change him'.

dadwashere that sounds an awful lot like you're blaming women for men bottling up their feelings. women are of course as influenced by society about how men and women should behave, but i do believe it is within men's power to change this attitude. i would also see a man prioritising "finding a mate" over expressing emotion as another demonstration of how toxic masculinity is harmful to men, in the sense that finding a sexual partner is seen as the ultimate goal that should not be questioned

i'm also not sure that many people (men or women) show the full depths of their emotions during the first few dates. certainly women are advised strongly not to in heterosexual dating (which is all i know of), and that crying or showing strong emotion will "scare him off".

I don't think the 'boys don't cry' thing is that modern - I think it's just something that's gone in and out of popularity as a cliche. I certainly don't think there's much evolution there.

But I think dadwas is right that men assume crying/showing open emotion isn't desirable, an also right that men tend to see this in that context of desirability. But surely if you are married to someone, and have children with them, it does need to be a bit more than that?

penelope, if his son/daughter was crying, would he see that as 'feminine'? Or would he just figure it was a child being upset?

dadwashere I think people find successful emotional management attractive. Neither breaking down in tears at the sheer beauty of the world at the drop of a hat, nor violently acting in anger (wether verbally or physically) is particularly attractive.