NUS and prostitution - confused...

[Ubik1]

They seem to haves passed a motion which holds anyone who thinks the Nordic model of managing prostitution is the preserve of right wing radical feminists.

I'm confused. I don't know much about sex work but I do know it is linked to trafficking of women and children and organised crime. I would be delighted if men were criminalised - but maybe I'm wrong?

Here's the motion but you might not be able to view it...

What about the opinions of exited prostitutes like Rachel Moran who support the Nordic model? Do they count? Or should they "go themselves"?

Also FYI SWERF is a slur used to silence women who disagree.

"Bumsnet" - very good, that must have taken you ages to come up with that!

What is a SWERF?

Sex Worker Exclusionary Radical Feminist

Part of the attempt to misrepresent those who oppose the decriminalisation of prostitution as being anti prostitutes themselves. It erases the existence and viewpoints of people like Rachel Moran obviously but why let the truth get in the way of a good anti women slur.

@UKip1- What if some prostitutes don't want helped out of it? Do you support raids on prostitutes' homes even if they are consenting?

@Sandor, during the public consultation in 2012 for introducing the Nordic Model in Scotland only 3 prostitutes (active+retired) replied in support of it, over 60 prostitutes (active+retired) replied opposing it. From that at least it appears most prostitutes are against the Nordic Model

There is an acronym for that?

SWERF is a term used a lot by prostitutes who don't support the Nordic model.

Have you read the thread at all?

I'm not UKIP I'm UBIK

I think presenting prostitutionas 'sex between consenting adults' is very disingenuous.
The power relations are very different. We see that with the number of Eastern European women trafficked here, the many people who do it to fund a drug habit even when their legs are so ulcerated they can barely walk. Then there's Rotherham.
Prostitution is harmful and exploitative.
If some people want to continue doing it - well hard cheese. I wanted to be an astronaut. We don't always get what we want and sometimes the greater good wins out.

My only reservation about a 'Nordic' style of policing prostitution is that there needs to be a financial safety net for these women and support for the future. Nordic countries have good welfare systems which is perhaps why it works.

"Have you read the thread at all?"

It's about some student union opposed to the Nordic model.

They aren't alone either, Edinburgh uni have voted to support students who are sex workers:

www.journal-online.co.uk/article/11358-eusa_passes_motion_support_sex_workers

"Safety nets" and support services for women (and men) in sexwork can also exist alongside decrim.

Well it's more that the NUS women's conference has passed a motion which labels any advocate of the Nordic model as a fundamentalist, right wing, anti LgBT radical feminist.

Which seemed to some us - perhaps not used to finer points of student politics - a touch judgemental.

I don't know how anyone can read the stories of those students and not see how much real harm is done by men feeling entitled to purchase access to the bodies of others

What would decriminalisation look like?

So you haven't understood the thread then. It is about the National Union of Students - that is THE student union, not a student union

lazocutor wrote - "For criminalisation we have a radical feminist politician and a religious idiot... And against criminalisation we have 2 adults who actually sell sex. I think we should listen to those who sell or have sold sex. Radfems and religious nutters can go themselves."

You don't listen to people who sell or have sold sex, you to listen only to sex workers, who agree with you.

You could read and learn from the writings of Andrea Dworkin, who became a leading anti-pimp anti-punter radical feminist, partly due to her own experience as a prostitute, but I suspect that hell would have to freeze over before you really put your money where your mouth is, on the issue of listening to sex workers, because she and others want to spoil your fun.

"I wanted to be an astronaut."

And the (most probably) reason you didn't is simply because you weren't prepared to meet the extremely demanding criteria.

Not quite the same as someone wanting to earn some extra money selling sex and finding doing so difficult because of radical feminists who advocate for things like police raids (often accompanied by media photographers).

If some people want to continue doing it - well hard cheese. I wanted to be an astronaut. We don't always get what we want and sometimes the greater good wins out.

Well put.

Edinburgh university NUS didn't just vote to support sex sellers but to oppose any criminalisation. They also refused to allow Rhoda Grant ,the MSP who wishes to introduce a Nordic model a chance to speak to them.

As it appears Edinburgh NUS are in favour of brothels,pimps,madams and against hearing differing views I'm not persuaded why I should accord them much credibility.

If you had read the thread you would see that many think it is right that students who are working as prostitutes should be supported by their university. They should not be denied access to services and HE. But it does not follow that punters should be supported in law in their perceived entitlement to purchase access to the bodies of others.

If you were a student or member of the NUS who wanted to discuss your support for the motion, I would think it worth discussing your views with you. However your silly misnaming of MN and posters on this thread, and your failure to recognise the NUS acronym suggests you aren't here for a reasoned argument.

By "supported by their university" I mean not experience discrimination as a result of their activities of course

The motion had an even better idea than the "nordic model".

One point suggests tackling poverty etc so noone feels pressured by economic circumstances.

BTW I'm not a radical feminist ( which many regular contributors here will be happy to confirm) I am also an atheist.

My objection is that prostitution,stripping, lap dancing and the like supports an abhorrent commodification of the seller, diminishes the humanity and decency of the buyer (what little they had) on each and every occasion and is damaging the good of society for us all.

It is not just another job.

"They also refused to allow Rhoda Grant ,the MSP who wishes to introduce a Nordic model a chance to speak to them."

And what does she know about selling sex? How many years experience does she have selling sex? What gives her the special right to just show up and lecture adults who sell sex despite not being a student or having any connection to the uni whatsoever?

What do you know about selling sex? How do you know what people here know about it?

"My objection is that prostitution,stripping, lap dancing and the like supports an abhorrent commodification of the seller,"

Should that be up to the sellers to decide? If they don't mind what they do I don't see any need for feminists to get offended on their behalf.

'Tackling poverty'

In Lithuania? Poland?

There will always be people poor and desperate enough to sell their bodies. Always. Decriminalisation creates a bigger market. Of course it does.