Going 'no makeup'

[LadyBlaBlah]

I know it's trivial and as feminists must think only of FGM however I'm getting fed up with the time, cost, effort and most of all the reasons why I wear make up.

I've been wearing it blindly since about aged 14 so it will weirdly be a big change, and my small act of rebellion against the p.

Anyone else a no makeup person?

I rarely wear makeup.

Mainly because I can't be bothered to put it on and running around with a toddler I don't really see the point.

However I do like some make up when I am going out for the night. To me it's all the part of dressing up and wanting to look and feel great. For me feminism is more than not wearing make-up

If anyone is wondering whether the hideously expensive Crème de la Mer moisturiser is worth it, it's not. Nivea looks, feels, smells and does exactly the same thing.

StillLost, you know what, I had actually been wondering just that from time to time
I cannot stand Nivea, so can you imagine how upset I'd be if I spent £££ for Creme de la Mer and found it to be similar?!
So, thank you

I think the conversation should focus on the discussion that women's bodies are not up for public conversation rather than suggesting that a bit more feminist backbone would help you put the concealer down.

Good point

Who has made that argument, though? Where is it? I know I didn't make it, anyway.

I feel like a lot is read into this discussion that's not in the posts. Which is fitting cause makeup itself is not inherently meaningful. It's just paint. What makes it meaningful, symbolic, is what we ascribe to its presence or absence, what we think it says about us and others, right?

Yes I am reading things not explicitly I the posts.

Where pp proclaim they don't see the need for make up and have never worn it. I read that "my skin is fairly decent, I have no obvious discolouration." For pp stating they barely bother with hair products etc don't always brush or otherwise do their hair = "I have straight/slightly wavy hair".

There's nothing wrong with any of this but it is fundamentally irrelevant and presumes that the low maintenance way is evidence of more developed feminist back bone in the face of the patriarchy. It is not and I just think it's bit of a distraction a way of patrolling the bounds of reasonable feminist behaviours

Concentrate on the real battles (imo) that you must look a certain way to progress and the abuse received when you don't.

OK, well. I can't control the meanings you have ascribed to my bare face, or the face you have ascribed to my bare words. I can only say that I don't take them into my self conception any more. And that it was hard for me to do that but I think really worth it for me, personally. My journey is not yours.

Exactly boding it is your personal journey.

Yes everyone should have the space to talk about their journeys but that's all they are. I just don't think Changing how we dress and do our hair will alter the impact of the patriarchy
That is my only point in all this

Whodrankmycoffee, I agree that some women will face more pressure than others. It is easy for me say that I don't remove facial hair when I don't really have any that is noticeable. I also feel the opposite way about short hair, that it is all very well for someone with the face of Audrey Hepburn to talk about the femininity of long hair, because they're not suffering the consequences I would.

I also agree that people should not judge women on whether or not they wear makeup. It doesn't say something about your beliefs.

But as well as an external issue about society's beauty standards and the enforcement of them, there is also an internal issue of women's attitudes and if they as individuals are happy. The OP is saying she has mixed feelings about wearing makeup, and seemed to be seeking to hear about how other women felt about themselves wearing it.

So while part of the reason I rarely wear makeup and now never wear heels is because of the kind of body I have and the lesser consequences, it is also because of the attitudes of other women (particularly in my family) that I have felt able to act in certain ways. And I think the OP wanted to hear about how people manage conflicts of societal expectations and discomfort people feel with wearing or not wearing makeup, and part of that is reassurance that many of us are not judging you if you do, and not judging you if you don't, but have the same mixed feelings.

I hear you almond but like boding said its a journey you make for yourself. The consequences of each particular choice are peculiar to each of us. That is why don't and can't judge women for how they choose to present I just think it's irrelevant

I don't like the premise of ascribing ideology to a personal choice on make upand hair cuts on the say so of strangers on the Internet. I think listening to each other is nice and interesting but the op needs to make her decisions based on her own circumstances.

I'm catching up with this thread and I just had to leap in and congratulation SGB for her explanation of 'beard envy'.

That is it! I totally have beard envy. Ex-DH had a fine beard and I always felt personally narked when he shaved it.

Could you please publish this theory, SGB, ideally in a form that will last a century or so and continue to be misquoted in A Level essays about Great Thinkers?

Listening to other women can give women strength and change the way they view their own circumstances.

Almost everything I have ever achieved, both internally and externally has been down to the advice and support of other women. It may be a journey you make for yourself but it isn't a journey you make alone.

Of course almond but our stories are snap shots of our lives my point simply is that every story is unique because we are unique.

Hair removal, hair dying, wearing make up, doing your hair, cutting your hair all these and more can be part of the journey but depending on how you look to begin with with consequence of pixie cut etc will be unique to you. That is my point and I think you covered it best almond with the analogy about facial hair

I was considering this the other day.
I had a hard time taking the mumsnet Christmas make up video seriously as the perfectly fine looking woman used over 20 products and implements to apply a mask
the thing that gets me, apart from the presumably high cost of all that is that men don't do it.
Which then led me to thinking that probably some of them should. Just a bit of eye cream and maybe some concealer and possibly eye pencil. Improve some of em no end.

I do wear make up every day; I just look better with make up and I've worn it since I was 12.
No need for heavy foundation though; a bit of BB cream & some primer over moisturiser is all that I need (ok it sounds like a lot).

If I'm honest I spend quite a bit on make up & moisturiser and like to experiment with make up. I colour my hair too. I like to wear smart fashionable clothes and enjoy buying & reading fashion magazines.
I do get compliments for my appearance and like getting them.

However I do see myself as a feminist - eg. the thought of changing my name on marriage makes me feel uncomfortable.

I think I see the effort I make with my appearance as kind of a hobby.
It doesn't make much difference to what men think of me, I know, because I've been asked out when I wore no make up and had messy hair.

Basically I wear make up just because I enjoy it.

IPee some men do wear make up of a kind - I know a man who like to wear nail varnish, and he digs up roads for a living!

I've met men who wear fake tan or who go on sunbeds because they worry about being pale, men who use GHDs on their hair and grow carefully crafted hipster beards, men who refuse to wear anything but label clothing, and men who spend hours body building.

Latara a man who comes into the shop I work in wears nail varnish and it looks fab!
I wear eye pencil, sometimes a tiny bit of eyeshadow. I seriously think not that women should give up make up but that men should embrace it.
Apart from the whole mask thing which I still think is odd.

i didn't wear make-up regularly until 3 years ago and my normal level is tinted moisturiser/mascara/lipstick. like goatsdontroam i now find i get far more compliments on my appearance from other women - e.g. my aunts and cousins.

my appearance overall has changed fairly dramatically (weightloss, hair colour, no more glasses, more expensive clothes) and i still find it astonishing how much other people notice this stuff having spent years being oblivious!

i think if you are currently wearing quite a bit you should wean yourself off it - my mother always tells me i look tired on the days i'm not wearing tinted moisturiser, if lots of people did that to you it could be a bit demoralising!

Oh, the issue might be the MNHQ description in DotD

"Face off - is foundation feminist?"

I suppose "supporting a poster with her decision to eschew patriarchal standards of fuckability and stop wearing make up, about which she feels somewhat nervous" wasn't very catchy, though.

I, too, have been on the receiving end of "but you are so pretty! you'd find a husband if you made an effort and wore girly clothes and makeup!". In the meantime, I've built a pretty good career and married a man who likes me with and without makeup.

I have two reasons for wearing makeup:

• If I'm looking tired, I will wear foundation and blusher to work. This tends to happen about 30% of the time.

• For a special night out, I will do the full works, aiming to look like myself but with my best features enhanced (bright lipstick, contouring).

I'm perfectly comfortable with my bare face, I just think makeup sometimes helps me look not so tired, and sometimes it's nice to play with, the same way I dress pretty casual most of the time when not at work but from time to time I will pull all the stops.

The only feminist conflict I've ever had about makeup was the aforementioned "you are not being a good girl and objectifying yourself enough to achieve the only worthwhile goal in life, i.e. finding a husband".

Despite my comment above, I have recently started wearing makeup again for work. I feel like it makes my life easier if I look more like what people expect I should look like.

It's such a time thief though, and when I put it on, I do sometimes feel that little knife in the ribs of "society wouldn't find your face acceptable if you didn't cover it up in this stuff" though.

And my DH has certainly never had that thought process - society is willing to accept his face just fine as it is, without him feeling like he's making some kind of "statement" by going about his business as nature intended.

Actually thinking about that has made me a bit , because sometimes when putting makeup on / doing hair I also think to myself "you can't polish a turd" - charming sorry!

I guess the point of that is that even if I put makeup on, and look more socially acceptable, I know that I still won't measure up.

And I don't even have any pressure from friends or family to look a certain way - that's all just from "society".

I don't think it's trivial at all OP.

I love make up and I've worked hard at perfecting the no-make up look, I always wear mascara, eyeliner, tinted moisturiser, concealer on the uneven bits, highlighter and blusher plus a hint of lip balm. I also highlight my hair and thread my eyebrows.

I just use it so I look like myself but better, it helps me show off my bone structure and in my opinion it is a personal choice not a feminist issue. I only do it for myself.

I also love clothes, it's all about textures and mood.

Basically everything we do or don't do to our appearance sends a message of some kind (this is actually fairly true for men, as well, though they have more of a 'neutral' setting than women do). The current 'norm' of femininity - a lot of make up that's meant to look like you're not wearning a lot of make up, high heels, straightened hair, skirt and tight top - is actually only relevant to some groups of women. Even among young women socialising/ on the pull or trying to climb the career ladder there are tribes, for want of a better word. A Goth girl isn't 'playing to the patriarchy' when she puts on her black lipstick and changes her nose stud for a bigger one half so much as she's trying to fit in with her gang. Women who are what MN used to call lentil weavers generally don't wear make up/heels and their clothes tend to be muddy sort of colours (or actually muddy from the allotment...).

ANd then there's the history of face painting among men - indications of your intention to have a fight, or your closeness to imaginary friends, or a mourning ritual etc. Or, indeed, painting your face white and sticking patches on it a few centureis back to show that you were fashionable. It's all a bit more complex than 'Chuck out that lippy or you're out of feminist school!'