Going 'no makeup'

[LadyBlaBlah]

I know it's trivial and as feminists must think only of FGM however I'm getting fed up with the time, cost, effort and most of all the reasons why I wear make up.

I've been wearing it blindly since about aged 14 so it will weirdly be a big change, and my small act of rebellion against the p.

Anyone else a no makeup person?

Does it ever occur to some of you that constantly going on about woman's things being degraded is a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Not really, Still. Description is not prescription. If you can't name the problem, you can't even begin to address it. There are also plenty of feminists who think that, outside of biological requirements, there should be no such thing as a woman's thing or a man's thing. There should just be things and free choice for everyone. Until such an enlightened society exists, if it ever can, feminists will be describing their realities and hopefully finding ways to negotiate or improve them.

Re "woman's things" I was quoting vitamints

I feel uncomfortable being done up so to speak, and prefer the no make up make up look, last time I made a big effort was my brothers wedding a few years ago and almost everyone commented on my appearance, with a few saying I'd be married by now if I put that effort in regularly, I felt awkward and didn't like the compliments (I don't mean that to be as vain as it sounds) but couldn't pin point why, I actually felt guilty for being mad inside about it.

Seems to me they were not compliments. My daughter and I were talking about this a few days ago- 'when is a compliment not a compliment'. It can be a backhand, delivered like a compliment but wrapped in an insulting coating, the key being you are not simply complimented on how-you-look/what-you-did because its not delivered in isolation for its own sake or even in comparison to others, its framed in context off your failures/lower-than-should-be standards. Worse case it can be very mean spirited stuff- 'You look great today' but with a subtext of 'you look as ugly as piss every other day'.

My rule is: If I am applying make up (or nail polish, or doing any of the grooming rituals) for fun, adornment, self-expression, creativity – for the joy of it, then I am doing it for me and that is fine. If I'm applying make up or shaving my legs as a chore – not because I want to but because I feel I am unacceptable in my natural state, then I am a victim of the patriarchy.

More detailed blog rant here

"Pretty is not the rent I pay on my space in the world. This whole sorry charade of Beauty... Is a trap. It's a game you can't win. It's like approaching the speed of light: the more you do the worse you feel."

bodin, will you marry me?

Skater exactly. My body, my pleasure, my business.
I get raised eyebrows because I don't have pierced ears but do have obviously dyed hair for example. No. I don't do things I can't be arsed to do.

I think if you are very serious about feminism and especially if you are against the objectifying of attractive women in TV and the institutional ageism/appearance-ism in the media and the fact that women often need to be considered attractive to get certain jobs whereas men do not, then SURELY you cannot wear any make-up at all?

I'm not sure how you square the wearing of make up (especially in the workplace in order to be seen as 'presentable' or professional or 'polished') with your strongly held feminist principles if you do.

It is possible/likely that the patriarchy has conditioned us to this of course, but given that we are happy and indeed quite determined and vociferous about becoming unconditioned in so many areas, why cling on to the make up and high heels and an obsession with looking better?

I disagree Engine. I may dislike the world I live in but I still have to live in it. I have also been subjected to the same social conditioning from birth as everyone else.

I have to earn a crust the same as everyone else. You gotta play the game.

Maybe in a matriarchy men and women would choose to wear make up and it wouldn't be associated with one sex.

To say you can't be a proper feminist if you wear make up is a bit crap really.

I did my years being out at work and wearing make up most days, these days, I am 49, disabled, SAHM, and I cannot be bothered with it any more. I still put it on for special occasions, date nights, and the like, but I never did enjoy how it felt on my skin, even when I wore it every day.

Well, there are many things I do/put up with that I don't necessarily agree with and I am sure for many woman that might include make-up (I am lucky in that there is little/no pressure on me to put make-up on in my professional life and DH hates the feel/taste of foundation/lipstick ).

I really don't see that how how much or how little make-up somebody wears says anything about whether or not they are a feminist.

At my work we wear a uniform so we're expected to look smart but we don't need to wear make up and we're only supposed to wear stud earrings.

But I like to wear make up to work and I make sure I've got my prettiest studs in.
I don't know why I like to do these things, I just always have done, at present I like the false eyelash look so I put on lots of mascara to get that look.

It's not for men really because they don't seem to notice make up unless women are wearing too much. It's more for me. So I think I can still call myself a feminist.

That is it! I totally have beard envy.

If you want to work in face to face customer service and sales in particular you can be told, often discreetly with a nod to political correctness and legality, to be clean shaven or not be hired or even lose your job. A beard is seen as creating a lack of trust issue for the potential customer/client. It happened to my daughters boyfriend after he tried to embark in a career in real estate sales, he chose to keep his beard and pass on to other things.

Dad was that in the UK? As in an estate agent? I know of a couple with facial hair! Might be a specific firm.

I don't wear make up, only some mascara & red lippy on a special occasion! mostly because I've got incredibly sensitive skin but I've just never been to bothered about it.
I've got a friend who won't leave the house without it which I just don't get shrugs

Oh and no one needs permission from self appointed guardians of the word feminist, to call themselves feminist.
For one, that contributes to young women not quite understanding what the word means:thinking it's a "badge" attached to living a certain way and in some cases immitating male stereotypes so as to avoid female ones sending a misogynistic message at worst and at best the idea it's very hard and binary and then they start this "I'm not a feminist" stuff. When yes, they are. They believe in equal rights but fear if they don't look right, have too many/few partners, have the wrong type of job, are a SAHM etc they're not "feminist" and will be judged.

Dad was that in the UK? As in an estate agent? I know of a couple with facial hair! Might be a specific firm.

No, not the UK, its a general thing in various states in the US, Australia, probably New Zealand as well. Not sure about Canada or the UK. Attitudes to beards at workplace and socially varies a lot, the UK may be more neutral, dont know. In many countries in the middle east the attitude to beards is actually reversed, you are regarded as shifty and untrustworthy if you are clean shaven.

Its an odd thing that seems to have nothing to do with situations where you are required to be clean shaven/short haired for reasons of safety, like for proper sealing of respirators or preventions of accident, its varying societal attitudes to a level of professionalism (depending on the job), honesty and cleanliness displayed by a beard. In recent history in the US there has been a real social upsurge of beards, which I find interesting. Not a fan of having a beard myself, but I dislike the idea of beard prejudice (or advantage).

I live in London where (in my area) there are many cultures where beard wearing is the norm. I don't think anyone's bothered by it tbh.
My dh works in a very traditional legal setting and has distinctive facial hair may just have outed myself .

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but SkaterGrrrrl, a hundred yeses to your blog post. I found the no makeup selfie thing quite disconcerting, especially the "oh the horror!" discourse that seemed to spring up around it (people posting selfies with deprecating comments, saying they'd had to screw up their courage to do it etc). I never wear makeup and I wanted to ask if my face frightened them all the time.

OP, my experience is probably a bit different because I never got into the habit of wearing makeup, so there was no point at which I gave it up. From that perspective, though, I couldn't imagine starting to wear it regularly, for reasons PPs have mentioned - I like the extra time in bed / working out etc!

The thing I would find hard to give up is shaving my legs, and the problem is that I know the reason I shave them is NOT because I like shaving them but because I'm anxious about being judged. Not wearing makeup isn't a challenge for me but going bare-legged with my winter fur would be...

At my place of work, some male doctors & nurses / HCAs have beards but they are quite neat & tidy beards.

I think a long scruffy beard would be the same as wearing your hair loose at work - just not acceptable in case the hairs get on the patients.

Personally I'm not keen on the fashion for long hipster beards that I keep seeing on otherwise attractive men but that's just a personal preference..

I am not happy at seeing men shave their arms and chest but they do........

Hovis I don't shave my legs either. The decider for me was a past boyfriend when I was about 21. I had a few days growth on my legs and he took out a razor and told me it all had to come off, and other girls did it every day, including their muff. This annoyed me so much, I told him to go and find other girls to have a relationship with. I had always resented doing it anyway.

Now I am almost 40 and have been hairy legged ever since. No more feeling resentful and uncomfortable.

Before you all pile in and tell me how comfortable you are and how much you like shaving: I am speaking for myself here.

I'm with you Hovis. I know it's daft and I know it's conditioning, shaving even gives me a rash, but I can't bring myself to go furry-legged in public. Just can't. Even I don't like how they look fully fuzzed.

The responses on this thread are skewed.

£8.4 billion was spent on cosmetics in the UK in 2013. Skincare and hair products providing most growth in the market.

At large, people, not just women, care passionately about how they look and how they might be judged.

This is an industry that preys on insecurity and lack of confidence whilst devaluing ability in favour of appearance.

Everyone is free to make their own choices and should not be restrained from choosing their own appearance - but with such money at stake and influence in corporate/media hands are people really making a "free" choice to wear makeup?

www.ctpa.org.uk/content.aspx?pageid=310

'I found the no makeup selfie thing quite disconcerting, especially the "oh the horror!" discourse that seemed to spring up around it '

Totally agree. I am a huge make-up fan, I love it. Love. It.
And I wear it every single day. Its one of my main hobbies. But I was completely horrified by the very idea that showing your bare face to the world is some kind of brave challenge which should be applauded. FGS! I know lots of women who never wear make up and they look perfectly fine. Mind you, I also know some women who wear tons of make up and they look bloody awful.

I do fully acknowledge that women's looks are overvalued and their words/deeds grossly undervalued in our society, and that the 'choice' to wear make up is not a free choice at all, but its still a choice I make. I do it for me, certainly not for men - I've never met a man who gave a rat's ass about make up anyway. My own male DP is often at the colours I wear on my face!

Lottapianos

"I do it for me" - I challenge the integrity of this statement.

You can't see your own face (unless you are in front of a mirror all day!).
You can't be doing it for you can you?
You are doing it because other people see your face and you are concerned with how they judge your appearance.

I can see how, if you value other people's judgement of your appearance, then the benefit might be additional confidence in yourself, but that isn't "doing it for me" really is it?