Consent, it's actually very simple

[AmpleRaspberries]

Hi, been lurking for a while, but friend just posted the following to fb www.theloop.ca/this-woman-just-explained-consent-with-the-most-perfect-metaphor/ which I wanted to share. When I read it I thought yes that's it! For all those idiots who can't work it out, this explains enthusiastic consent perfectly.

x-post! Serves me right for taking ages to compose a reply!

Ah I see, you were trying to challenge the black/white view on consent. So you think there's a grey area?

That's a good summary, Buffy. But I think it is important (maybe not so much on the feminist board, but in general) to be clear that no-one says no when they mean maybe, male or female, and that it is just as much a girl's responsibility to walk away from a drunk boyfriend as vice versa.

(Obviously same is true of adults, but I have an about-to-be-teenage dd.)

None of this is new, either. I've walked away in my younger days when I realised that we were both too drunk to be making sensible decisions. Even though I might have been pretty sure that I wouldn't regret things in the morning, I couldn't know that random bloke X wouldn't. And I think that was accepted to be right behaviour even going back 25 years.

Sorry, x-post. I don't think being drunk is a red herring, really. Both men or women make stupid decisions when drunk or stoned, and if you are more sober, you have a moral responsibility to be responsible, IYKWIM.

Yes, definitely agree with both your last posts. Got to go back to work, will try and come back later . . .

Both men or women make stupid decisions when drunk or stoned, and if you are more sober, you have a moral responsibility to be responsible

I would agree with this statement. Do others?

Why wouldn't we partial?

Yes, that's a good guide generally including preventing a drunk friend from throwing up on her shoes by getting a bucket, or whatever.

I disagree with you about consent not being black and white. But really the issue is the socialisation that there's something more awful about missing out on a sexual opportunity than there is about having sex that one party later regrets or (and this is separate) feels they didn't give free and meaningful consent to.

As per your example, you stayed friends with the woman and so might have had sex at another moment if you both, freely and with capacity, wanted to. And if not with each other, well, no doubt another positive sexual opportunity would arise for you both down the line.

scallopsrgreat Why wouldn't we partial?

You seem to want to trip me up on my posts, scallopsgreat.

That's probably not too hard in an intellectual debate.

Partial, FYI, I'm taking you in good faith here, but can you see why some aren't when you argue that consent has grey areas and when in other recent posts you've been flippant about sincere concerns?

I'm actually fighting my instinctive reaction to some of your posts as I hope you just aren't quite expressing what you mean.

Again, always remember women can't be disinterested observers. We haven't got that luxury.

Knickerful, thank you for your patience.

However I am certainly not trying to be in any way 'goady' if any of my previous posts have come across that way.

I have opinions that need to be tested, and that is what I feel this thread is doing. I apologise to the OP for the way I seem to have hi-jacked it.

I have two daughters whom I hope to bring up in a world of equal opportunity and expression.

Partial, I don't think you are goady.

I think you are blinkered. I think you are cushioned.

You've been around MN and FWR long enough to know that many women on these boards have been raped or sexually assaulted, or both.

And you state "you have opinions (on consent, presumably) that need to be tested"

Do you see how it sounds?