Feminism for women of colour...

[AnotherEpisode]

As a black woman, I quite often feel sidelined within feminism.

I don't feel feminism addresses the difficulties faced by women of colour in western societies and quite often I feel I am drawn to race issues over feminist issues because of this.

I absolutely have more difficulties in this society because of the colour of my skin than I do because of my sex.

I feel that the lack of understanding towards racism amongst feminist circles gives me a stance of one over the other in which racism usually wins, which is unfortunate really!

This article, although written in a strong, comical and sometimes rude tone, gives a good insight!

thegrio.com/2015/02/23/patricia-arquette-blacks-gays-white-women/

Not sure why I'm posting but I'm interested in a wider perspective especially people's thoughts on the article!

AgentCooper I have also read the whole thread and also posted. Unless I have missed something, there have not been any comments about Meryl Streep except yours. Her cheering reaction was to Patricia Arquette's original remarks during her acceptance speech which did not have the offending references to gay people and people of color.

YY 100% white tears

If I slap you on the head do you care that my intentions were good?

Or my personal favourite
"I am apologise if I offended you" = I dont give a shiny fuck.

Sorry Scone, I did intend to put words in anyone's mouth. That was my reading of the clip, perhaps I ought to re-watch.

AgentCooper The article that the OP linked to sets out my understanding of the sequence and how the narrative changed because of the backstage remarks.

Arquette did make a reference to women working for everyone's rights in her speech, but it was the specific remarks that she made after that were exclusionary, at least in my understanding.

I think woc need to change the conversation and push past the white tears mentality. We need to pop up and start talking in these type of spaces to call Bs but also to offer another perspective. And we need to push harder for more positive imagery. And in some instances we need to protect ourselves from our own communities. I think that is a bit controversial. But if we can pick and choose the bits of feminism to agree with surely you can do it with all aspects of your life.

Great post crescent. Thinking about Muslim women in the UK. Do you need to call your actions feminist to do the work, does it even matter if the job gets done?

Btw I am now convinced being of west Indian origin in the UK sounds quite cushy compared to your three strikes analogy. I never thought I had privilige

just to echo i'm grateful too. it's tough and necessary reading for a white feminist

I've not finished reading the thread. But I can't get passed this
Through experience, I have decided that trying to convince people that racism plays a part in the life of EVERY person of colour in 2015 is pointless. I want to not believe it but I know deep down in my heart that it must be true and that is just so freaking shit. I'm white, I know my understanding of issues related to race is limited but I know that all PoC face some level of racism constantly and I feel like I've known that for ever such a long time, like since primary school. I'm sorry the world needs to be so much better than it is.

House the hypersexualisation of black women Is a real problem. When feminists sit around critiquing Beyonce and her Mrs carter tour or nikki minaj and whether or not their music or behaviour is feminist, they are feeding the monster that says black female sexuality is wrong and apart from white women. And IF black expressions of sexuality are non feminist then if and when black women are victims of assault it becomes "we kinda believe you, but we know you have your hypersexualisation twerking woo woo, so we white feminists are not going in to bat for you 100%"

Btw I am really grateful for starting this thread because often when I am on other parts of mn I feel like the comments and suggestions are breathtakingly naive.
I am glad that like crescent, ratbag, episode and others are out there are mulling over and working with the same issues.

My reasoning for private schooling, not kicking up a fuss at work, working long hours, prioritising my career etc are not the same as most on mn

Ahh grateful to the op for starting this thread

This is such an enlightening thread for me as white woman (and mother of a mixed race daughter) on so many levels.

I am going to possibly sound like a clumsy do-gooding liberal leftie here, but I have to say it: white people NEED to hear these viewpoints and experiences and uncomfortable truths! Its crucial. I don't know how that can happen. I don't know if its a case of women of colour saying these things within their own networks and circles first, getting used to SAYING it and being heard, and then moving that message out to the white world. I don't know what role white women play here? It seems from the experiences of women of colour above that many white women in the feminist movement act as gatekeepers to the agenda, and don't 'give' women of colour space to set their own agenda.

It makes me think of the dialogue between Malcolm X and MLK. Malcolm X said he was interested in raising black consciousness, MLK said the civil rights movement needed to be equally concerned with changing white consciousness. YES.

I am SICK of being told that race doesn't matter, or isn't as relevant these days, or isn't as relevant as gender in relation to opportunity. It enrages me. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be if you are a woman of colour. I try so hard not to shy away from acknowledging my white privilege, and re: the conversations above about interracial relationships and what they mean/what they say to the outside world about the people in them - as a white woman married to a black man, yes its uncomfortable at times to examine this, its difficult, but for fuck sake...its necessary! We need to examine these issues to move forward in any real way!

Its healthy, its important, it's absolutely necessary that white feminists HEAR this stuff, are forced to face up to it whether it makes them (us!) feel uncomfortable or not.

The feminist movement is worth nothing if it doesn't give women of colour a voice.

I don't know what happened to blackfeminists.org but thankfully the author of this piece has it up on her own blog too - aboatwithnoengine.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/beyonce-black-feminism/

The way Black women's dances and fashions are co-opted by white girls in a short-hand for 'I am playing at being sexy right now' like some kind of 'hot pussycat' halloween costume totally relies on racialised misogyny.

There's a sort-of shrieking frenzy that I've seen quite often like 'but I am a feminist and I need to share my feminist thoughts about how unfeminist this woman of colour is' which is accompanied with an utter denial of how it fits into racist perceptions of Black women and sexuality. It grinds my corn no end.

You see a lot of rape cases with minors as victims with the guy let off because the girl 'looked' older, where the minor is Black and the jury mostly isn't. I think it's quite hard to judge how old someone is when everyone in your own world is a different race than the person concerned.

Tbh it sounds harsh but from what I've seen in my years within feminist groups the most useful things for white feminists to do are a)not exhibit racist behaviours and opinions (and this takes a lot of self-criticism and openness to criticism from others), b) see women of colour as fully human (falls under a) really) and extend empathy to the same degree you would a white woman - Miley Cyrus and Beyonce being a good example of how this doesn't happen generally and c) talk about racism and racialised misogyny/misogynoir.

I say it sounds harsh because it is quite challenging to one's self-perception to think about one's behaviour and opinions being racist, but I can swear up and down from the amount of times I've seen really decent feminists say really awful things about lesbians that having good intentions does not wash your internalised prejudices away.

Also, can I just say, could this be a running chat thread please? There's so much to talk about and it's the most engaged I've been in MN feminism for ages.

whodrankmycoffee I don't think i understand what you are saying re black female sexuality. On the one hand, you see to be saying critiquing of the likes of Beyonce is wrong "they are feeding the monster that says black female sexuality is wrong" and on the other hand you seem to be saying this hyper sexualisation causes doubt in victims of assault.

In addition, is there a "black" expression of sexuality? isn't expressions of sexuality split simply along the lines of gender and if at all there is "black" sexuality, black women are very diverse.

Hear bloody HEAR!

Another great article.

Omo what I am saying is that black femsle sexuality is critiqued more often and with a more critical eye.

I don't care that Beyonce is discussed but the intensity is staggering when compared to Katy Perry or iggy or Britney.

I just feel the standard for black women is higher for all behaviour.
And in particular any black woman behaving sexually is seen to be a more overt and sexual expression than if a white women did exactly the same thing. Perfect example is miley and rhianna.

I then extrapolated that if you view black females as hypersexual you cannot empathise to the same degree if they are victims of sexual assault.

I don't think that expression of sexuality is the same. But the underlying judgement how these exotic dark sexual women persists.

SLPA it doesn't sound harsh, it sounds horrifying that it doesn't happen already, and i say that knowing that i'm sure that i have and do exhibit those ingrained racist (and homophobic) opinions and need to examine myself closely now and in future to eradicate them

To paraphrase Gail Dines, female sexuality and specifically white female sexuality has to tread a thin tightrope between 'prude' and 'slut'. In order to police this, there has to be examples of 'slut' and examples of 'prude' to point at and shame. So using this lens, Beyonce is like the scapegoat for 'clothes too revealing' or 'dance too suggestive' and it's not challenged often because it relies on racist tropes (and ideas about 'fast' girls etc).
The 'prude' side of things - well, look at how women talk about someone who wears hijab, or the way lesbians are talked about like 'needing some dick' etc.
Which is why, even if for some reason the very important element of racism is not significant in your feminism, it should be as it affects all women.
Rape trials are all about establishing whether you were 'clean enough to rape' in the first place.

Thanks for making it very clear. I totally agree with you.

On the subject of hypersexuality, do you think the likes of Beyonce, Rhianna and all the booty shaking females in all the rap/hiphop videos , do you think they further promote the image of the hypersexualised black female? as a woc i don't understand why black artists in particular continue to promote this image as well as the gun totting black males.