DIL vs MIL issues

[rationaloptimist123]

I have always been annoyed at the BS perpetuated by the myth about the Chinese symbol for quarrel being two women etc etc But I do despair about the sheer vitriol that seems to emerge (woman against woman) on MN whenever the DIL vs MIL dynamic is being discussed.

Any thoughts as to why this at least appears to be so much more prevalent than SIL vs FIL conflict?
Is there any research / writing on this apparent disparity (possible causes) etc?

Sorry meant "complaining about Mil always being around there will be..."

Well essentially they are both the OW. And I think it's as simple as that.

My mil scores 9 out of 10 on the best mil scale

But

Any "issues" we have are down to me not working and sponging off her baby boy, spending his money and not cooking him his tea...and maybe not being as grateful as I should be

She is lovely and wouldn't say any of these things directly

Not sure. In many cultures entire communities worked together (mining, farming, fishing, other trades). I am sure this could have given ample opportunity for FIL and SIL to interact.

Sorry last post was in answer to Aknickerfull

joyfuldeathsquad
I think you might have hit the nail on the head.

you see lots of SIL/FIL tension in films, particularly american ones (which of course are entirely representative of that culture ) which basically boils down to who is allowed to claim ownership of the daughter/wife

I think the concept of a nuclear family has a lot to do with it.

Previous generations seem to have had a lot more tolerance of the experience and wisdom of the older generation. Advice was passed on and wasn't necessarily considered interfering but as helpful. Living in extended families meant that self interest could possibly have been less of an issue.

I read a lot of threads on here where posters change the definition of their family when a baby first comes along and I can see why the 'old' family unit is left bewildered and feeling left out. Whilst I can understand about the creation of the new family unit, there does seem to be a desire by many to obliterate the old family unit instead of integrating or seeing a new baby as simply a new addition to an existing family.

My mother still reaches out her arm when I go to cross the road without waiting for the green man. I could take offence or be pleased that she cares or overthink a small protective gesture of concern and persuade you all that she's a controlling monster.

I have lots of Indian friends who tell me DIL vs MIL issues were just as prevalent in extended / multi-generational families. Of course lots of other "baggage" going on there including the dowry system etc etc.

It's this way in all patriarchal cultures. It's because of the clash between positions, because of not getting the respect that should be owed to the mother of a male. In some cultures you only get a name if you have a son and your name is "son's mother". Just because we have our own (first) names (at least) doesn't mean this isn't in our culture too. That's why queen mother has been a powerful position across the world but princess never has and queen rarely is

It's not about women's personalities, that just exacerbates it. My MIL and I have a good relationship in spite of this. It's a thing. It's not about family units or woman/mom would be as big a thing, man/FIL would be as big a thing, neither is. And it's misogynistic to claim it's because women are bitchy and difficult. It's about power, it's about being the mother of a son

I often wonder if it's worse (?) if a mil only has boys. I think women (or I do) raise their daughters differently although I only have girls so I wouldn't know.

Although I 'mother' my girls (well dd1is 20 so not with her) I never served them. I wonder if women with only boys fall in to that trap. I have a cousin with two of each and the stark difference to how she treats them is something I've commented on.

She still brushes her four year olds sons teeth and physically gets him dressed for school while he is watching TV and from the social media page we were discussing it on she wasn't the only one who behaved like this. Obviously not all women would do this.

Maybe this over investment is what causes the rivalry - devoting your whole being and then seeing your master piece waltz of in to the sunset with some other woman could leave you feeling short changed.

Maybe it's because historically women were expected to give up everything and give them selves up to being super wife and amazing mother- forgetting somewhere inside was an actual woman. My mil favourite turn of phrase is 'I'd crawl over broken glass for my boys' which at them being 35 & 40 years old I find really bizarre.

rina I totally agree with your first paragraph regarding the respect for the mother of the man. But why should they have that expectation of respect especially in this country- when a pleasant mutual friendship could be made?

Previous generations seem to have had a lot more tolerance of the experience and wisdom of the older generation. Advice was passed on and wasn't necessarily considered interfering but as helpful.

But then maybe it's because the DIL's education level isn't so different from their MIL? Even DH agreed that MIL sounds incredibly stupid. I have not heard a thing she said that would be considered wisdom. She made statements like she can't use an umbrella or wear glasses. There is always some stupid excuse. She can't even understand the letter the council sent her about council houses. DH said she never handled anything and FIL did everything. She just cleans and cooks dinner. (And she cleans in such an inefficient way that you can only do because she has too much free time).

Joyfulldeathsquad the two most fractious MIL vs DIL relationships I know of both happen to be where where the MIL only has sons. The dynamic with the DIL definitely has some hallmarks of seeing her as a rival /threat

I don't get on with my own mum

If you look on here it's not just DIL/MIL, it is women having difficulties with all sorts of relationships - their own parents, their in-laws, their children, the children's teachers, the other mothers at the school gate, their work colleagues, their midwife, all sorts of stuff.

When MIL / DIL problems arise it is in my view because women are the ones who have to take at least the first time off with a new baby, and then currently they are also the default to take the more extended time off also. The in-laws want to see the baby obviously but they do not have the same relationship with the DIL as they would with their own child. Often it seems there is resentment because the DIL will see their own parents more and hence they see the baby more, which is an understandable resentment but also understandable why it happens ie why people feel more comfortable with their own parents.

The solution is for men to take responsibility for their role as parent including arranging seeing people like his parents and so on. That way it's not all on the woman and her natural instinct to see her own family.

Rational & pilchard - I don't get on with my own dm, infact we are NC. So it's such a shame in my case as there is absolutly space for mil to be a 'mother' figure to us all but after five years in its apparent that I'm just DP girlfriend and dd mother.

I wonder how if effects the FILs? I know my fil can sometimes show tiny snipets of jealousy towards his sons - especially his youngest (DP) or maybe it's just his personality.

Previous generations seem to have had a lot more tolerance of the experience and wisdom of the older generation. Advice was passed on and wasn't necessarily considered interfering but as helpful

I'm not sure that's universally true. My mother loathed being told what to do by my paternal grandmother. And mum was born in the 40s.

It does seem to be a classic conflict where sons and fathers are too oftwn prepared to stand back and enjoy watch the resulting argument.

I think for me I feel that I am the lightening rod for any decision or value we as a couple have that MiL doesn't like. So anything about how we do things as a family she disagrees with she perceives me as being responsible for. I think this is how the patriarchy has interevened in our relationship.

My MIL isn't a bad soul (in fact in many ways extremely generous), but what annoys me is that she treats her DS (my DH), and by extension, our DC, as second rate. She is obsessed with her 2 DD, and their children. It is almost as if by getting married, he well and truly cut the apron strings and won't be forgiven for it.

Rational, I disagree with your last post. I doubt many people get amusement out of arguments between people they love.

It's one of the side-effects of how power and social roles are distributed in our society.

• Women are generally disempowered, their sphere of influence is domestic. Therefore, the two players on that domestic turf will be engaged in a kind of struggle for scant power.

• Women are socialised to handle family matters. Therefore domestic arrangements and domestic tensions go through them, while the FIL and SIL get to sit back and remain passive and tension-free in their own relationship.

Aknickerfull
Point taken. Not enjoy. Rather remain aloof.

We get on really well with our DiL, she is lovely, happy for us to have DGD overnight if they need a babysitter and she is totally 'do it your own way'.
No laid down rules for us to follow.
I do see a lot of that on here where both 'sides' seem to want to assert themselves.
If however she had laid down rules we would have done our best to follow them.
We don't impose ourselves, it's nice to see them all fairly regularly but not to be in each other's pockets.
I hate that MN expression 'your house, your rules', makes me cringe but there is an element of sense in it, you don't expect everything to be the same as it is at your house and your son is her DH/P now, his family is his priority, my DS would be terribly upset if we fought or bitched about his partner.