DIL vs MIL issues

[rationaloptimist123]

I have always been annoyed at the BS perpetuated by the myth about the Chinese symbol for quarrel being two women etc etc But I do despair about the sheer vitriol that seems to emerge (woman against woman) on MN whenever the DIL vs MIL dynamic is being discussed.

Any thoughts as to why this at least appears to be so much more prevalent than SIL vs FIL conflict?
Is there any research / writing on this apparent disparity (possible causes) etc?

I would assume because, traditionally, women have been the "family relationship" caretakers so typically an MIL and DIL will interact more on eg arranging family occasions than an FIL and SIL.

Specifically on MN, of course, very few men post, so unlikely to be any FIL/SIL stories.

Not just here but in general conversation, life experiences - the really heated (sometimes vicious) conflict at least appears to be woman against woman. In fact ( from my own limited experience) I don't know a single male family member / friend / colleague who has any kind of issue with his FIL. In fact, in general, the relationship seems to be based on an easy - going, bonhomie, relaxed congeniality and shared support.

However it pains me to say that the converse is far from the truth. My sister has not spoken to her MIL for 12 years. This is just one example out of 15-20 I could cite here.

While each case is obviously very different, I really wish this "problem" wasn't such a cliché. And I really wish women could be more tolerant, supportive of each other.

As the "problem" is such a frequent topic on MN I just wondered if this had struck anyone else?

Yes I would say it is to do with traditional gender roles and the relative lack of power women have overall. I also suspect that it works in some men's favour to have their wife and their mother at loggerheads

" really wish women could be more tolerant, supportive of each other"

It suits the patriarchy much better if they don't.

How do you get on with your MIL, OP?

FILs are often a big problem for DILs as well, judging from threads on here. The battles tend to be about different things from the MIL/DIL conflicts, and are more easily avoided because men still tend to be less involved in the domestic sphere. But that issue is definitely also there.

Both MIL and FIL issues with DILs frequently seen to be about an assumption by the PIL that the DIL ought to submit to their control and be at their beck and call, in major and minor ways.

And actually, what appears to be a woman-to-woman problem is usually much wider, but the women are openly clashing while the men are being problematic by avoidance/passivity or delegating the fight to the women. So many unhappy DILs are just proxy victims for their husbands.

I know a number of men who don't have great relationships with their fil. The difference is that they don't get upset and bothered by it.

I think if I was a different kind of woman, I would have issues with my mil. But I don't take things personally and don't believe she has any power over me so the odd dig etc just fly right by me.

I am not sure why this is unusual but suspect it's because women are more likely to be brought up wanting to please people and to be liked. So conflict with a older authority figure in the form of mil is very difficult.

Aknickerfull
My own MIL was lovely but she passed away just four years into our marriage. So when this topic comes up with friends and family I do get told I'm not qualified to speak. One female extended family member even told me I was "lucky".

Re "blaming" the man or the patriarchy, undoubtedly this plays a role. But doesn't this absolve women from their own accountability in this relationship. I've observed a fair few spats where many observing (male and female) have done their utmost to intervene but to no avail.

I would worry if the debate doesn't move beyond "I going to continue this hostile and vicious conflict with a fellow woman because of men "

i don't think any woman who is in conflict with her DIL or MIL is going to say "I going to continue this hostile and vicious conflict with a fellow woman because of men"

I wonder if it's also because the older generation of women will have had such a narrow sphere of influence in their lives, and the one thing they will have had control over would be their children. Daughters for the most part replicate what their mothers do domestically, but sons don't - they move out of their mother's control and then get "taken over" by a younger woman. It's a recipe for resentment. In my experience the more invested a woman is in her children to the exclusion of anything else, the more likely she is to be a nightmare MiL.

Petula
Agreed. My point was about getting more of the women to take personal responsibility for the dynamic as mature, adult women with choices as to how they treat their fellow human being - regardless of what BS gets thrown at them by wider society, the patriarchy etc

I agree with Amethyst

I thought l had a good relationship with MIL until DD was born. Then she became a completely different person, things like pulling on the pram until she had checked the road was clear before 'releasing' it. TBH FIL pulled some stunts too that left me

Lucky for me l am quite capable of pulling people up on shitty behaviour and 4 years down the road they know what is and isn't acceptable to me regarding my dd.

I also now dont care as much what they think about me which in a weird way has improved my relationship with them.

i'm reluctant to ascribe age to anything like that amethyst

what little conflict there is with my own MIL comes down essentially to what she views as my role as a woman (to be running the household and responsible for all housework, organising our social lives, responsible for all communications and organisation) because that is the role that she has taken and the way our society works back her up on this, and my resistance to that. fortunately this is no more than a slight irritation from time to time which is got over with a sigh on my part. and fundamentally she is a lovely, kind and generous woman who i love, and who wants nothing but the best for her son and me. plus dp doesn't agree with her on the role of a woman, which helps

but if there weren't such expectations at society level (see patriarchy) about the role of a woman within a heterosexual couple as wife, mother, grandmother, etc then this tension wouldn't exist. and i'm talking about relatively minor things - we don't have children so the issues over parenting which will be much more emotional and personal haven't arisen

i'm not saying it's right or a good thing or anything. but i'm also not going to say it's all about silly women being silly - it's far more complex than that

i agree about women being socialised as people-pleasers workingbling, that causes a lot of tensions and resentment

I think Possum is right, it's less of a MIL/DIL thing and more a "the upbringing of children belongs to society not parents" thing - these issues so often surface when new babies arrive. And women are often in the socialised role of main caregiver so bear the brunt of getting told what to do (by everyone) re bringing up children.

I think there's also a sidebar of "the house belongs to the woman to look after" social norm, which is probably why so many MIL/DIL threads on here touch on cleaning. In other words, where two generations have a perceived role in common it will cause friction if one tells the other how/what to do. Most SIL/FIL pairs probably don't do the same job.

As an aside, FIL/SIL relationships can be very strained. My dad hated my maternal grandfather.

I think it is just because if it's a SIL problem, men just don't interact with the Ils. They aren't bothered because they don't deal with family relationships. Their wives will deal with the ILs.

I don't like my MIL. I work FT so I don't have to do anything for her. DH buys all the presents, rings her etc. I only go with DH as its invariably the weekend. It's only when I'm on maternity leave now there is more of an expectation of my involvement. I suspect if I go PT then it will definitely be an issue for me.

Petula I didn't mean age as such, more that many women of MNer age will have MiLs of a generation likely to have stopped working outside the home when they married/had children, hence a level of frustration and a narrowness of focus. And that is absolutely a consequence of patriarchy.

Petula, I think the age thing may be a factor inasmuch as the older the MIL is, the more likely it is statistically that her role was as SAHM or "small" job rather than WOHM (which as we see on here sometimes bring about clashes regardless of generation!)

no i do see what you mean in terms of probability, it's just my MIL very much subscribes to rigid gender roles and is only in her mid-fifties

I also think in some cultures there's a very real expectation that a DiL will be deferential and respectful to her MiL (who craves that respect because she doesn't get it from any of the men in her life) and then if the DiL turns out to be a modern woman with other ideas it can release an absolute shitstorm of resentment on both sides.

That's quite a scary thought actually. In my head there's a cut-off age below which women just won't think in that "traditional" way but in reality I don't think that's the case at all.

I'm really not sure about the current generational issues (SAHM vs working). I think the tension and rivalry goes back generation after generation (even in societies where there was very little change in technology, the role of women inside / outside the home).

What I find bizarre is that my mother would have been very at home on this board in the 60s/70s, she was always very strongly feminist, but now in her late 70s she comes out with some absolute corkers about male/female roles and household responsibilities that the young her would have found ridiculous. She's not a MIL to a DIL but from things she says to my DSis and I, I reckon she'd be complained about on MN if she were.

Interestingly, she never had a MIL herself as my Dad was from SA and pretty much cut ties with his family when he moved here.

I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make here.

OP, how do you think it would work if, going back generations, FILs came to visit SILs in their workplaces a couple of times a month and hung out there for an afternoon, making conversation about work processes etc?

I think traditionally MILs and DILs are visitors to each other's daily domains far more than FIL/SILs, don't you?

I think traditionally MILs and DILs are visitors to each other's daily domains far more than FIL/SILs, don't you?

On the face of it that is a very valid point but the Dil/Mil threads seem to have as much as animosity no matter how little the contact.

For every one Dil complaining about her Mil on Aibu there will be another complaining that her Mil isn't showing enough interest in grandchildren.

I don't mind my mil. I didn't like her for many years and she didn't like me. Due to geography rather than animosity I rarely see her.