Anti-Transgendered thread in Chat

[countessmarkyabitch]

Started off as a vague question about what makes you feel like a woman, lots of people started mentioning transwomen, naturally. Has now turned into some posters stating that transwomen are just men and shouldn't be allowed use female things like toilets and rape crisis, pretty much anything.

I find this really offensive and have stopped engaging. My personal feminism encompasses women who were born in male bodies, and supports their struggle to be recognised as women. I also think they need the protection and help of feminists as a particularly at risk group.

Is this an unusual stance? Does anyone agree with me?

To make things a bit more difficult, I don't like the word cis. I won't identify with it.
There are loads of reactions to misplaced gender identity. Wanting to change sex is just one, and lets be honest not nearly the most common one.

The overwhelming majority of sexual violence against women is perpetrated by men. That's just a fact

Yeah, I did say that in my post, House

"I've already said I don't feel comfortable discussing another person's race or culture. I can't define that any more than I can define what it is to be a man."

I'm sorry but I find this confusing. You are happy to discuss how a man might feel he wishes to become a woman, even though you are a woman. But you can't see another perspective when it comes to ethnic background? Surely, you have your own race and culture, can you define that?

I stayed on a mixed ward when I was 17.

Not sure what that has to do with this?

I didn't like it BTW, I didn't like it at all. I felt very vulnerable and the men were staring. It was only one night though. I don't remember any other women being there. It was years and years ago now though, so can't remember with much detail IYSWIM.

House
I meant that were I in that situation, I would be torn, because my general ethic code would be to treat that trans woman as I would any other woman, versus my feelings as a rape victim.
But, my feelings as a victim would win over.
And if I chose to ask for another doctor, it would be my greatest hope that the doctor wouldn't take it personally, but I know that's a lot to ask for.

Hope that makes it a bit clearer.
Just to be super clear, victim's feelings win every time. But that internal dialogue/ struggle would exist in me.

Then in those terms, I do believe the victim should be able to request a different doctor, and that request should be fulfilled without ridicule or judgement.
It's not an easy thought that a trans woman would have to go through those emotions, but it's nothing compared to what the victim is going through so that's the way it is.

I'm under the impression that a victim could request a different doctor without giving any reason, I may be wrong?
Sooo... I'd like a different woman please.

Are doctors bound by rules to tell their patient that they're trans (if it's not obvious?).
Or would you be examined by a woman with no clue that they had a penis, or do they have to declare their penis?
Not hypothetical, genuine question.

I know House, that's why I'm finding this so interesting. It's just not that clear cut.
I'm finding out that my automatic gut reaction is to help trans women be as comfortable and accepted as possible, but not to the detriment of other women.
Working out how that would transfer to legislation, it tricky. Interesting, but tricky.

But either the doctor is not recognisable as not female, in which case the examination goes ahead and the victim is none the wiser

(How is that ethically?)

Or the doctor is recognisable as not female, which puts the victim in a difficult position as many women won't want to be rude even in a situation like that

All of this comes back to whether trans women should be accepted as women in any and all situations isn't it. At the moment they are not.

I think you can accept someone as a woman, whilst also recognising that they are not an appropriate person to perform an internal examination on a rape victim.

Plenty of people aren't biological parents though. We don't tell them they can't be actual parents, because they aren't biological parents. We can't tell a trans woman that she's not an actual woman, because she isn't a biogical woman.

Of course many transactivists say they are women and thus need to be accepted as such in any and all situations. And I can understand that point, obviously. But a lot of women say hold on I'll be friends with you and I'll happily work with you and stand up for you if someone is horrible but I don't want you in a cell with me in prison if you've got a penis / I'm a lesbian and I don't want to have sex with you if you've got a penis and that's not good enough.

Like I say, I can see their point. I can understand why they're pissed off. But. BUT. You can't have everything your own way immediately all the time which is something that women understand all too well. This is a relatively new thing and it takes time for society to adjust to new ideas and work out how things fit together. And you know what society is run by men so if things aren't working properly it isn't feminists you need to shout at.

I don't know. I don't want anyone to have a bad time, you know? But I don't want people shouted at and threatened because they can't and won't change all of their fundamental beliefs at the drop of a hat.

Hubert that's what I keep wondering - should trans people compelled to always announce their trans status? Wouldn't that mean by extension that anyone would have to keep proof of their sex at birth? Don't like that idea at all

Alright then amantes, if a transwoman is a biological woman because she feels like a woman,

What name do you want to give all the women who were born women but don't "feel like a woman"?

I have to say, I understand not wanting penises around vulnerable women.
But I don't want to punish someone for being born with a penis either.

Meanwhile women and girls all over the globe are punished for being born with a vagina, day in and day out.