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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

YA author's anti-lesbian,anti-women comments

63 replies

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 18/02/2015 10:43

www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/17/robert-muchamore-apology-lesbian-comments-fifty-shades

Robert Muchamore says protesters against 50 shades of grey were 'ugly women with short hair who I assume were lesbians, and surely hadn’t had a penis anywhere near them in some considerable time' .
If he didn't agree with the protest, he should have explained why and not objectified women and demeaned lesbians.

twitter.com/WomanistNerd/status/566977186910179328

This is a tweet with the screencap of what was actually said.

He has form for being an attention-seeking caricature of blokey awfulness, so I was reluctant to give him more attention.

www.theguardian.com/childrens-books-site/2011/oct/26/robert-muchamore-banned

That's him having a huff that a school for 7-year-olds and up didn't buy his books for their library.

The only reason I'm raising this publicly, and giving it more oxygen, is that one of the protesters was a 14-year-old girl, who now has to read that she looks as though she hasn't had enough penises near her for her to appear patriarchally-compliant.

This is so many kinds of wrong I don't know where to start.

But mainly, this guy's readership is mainly the boys who will already feel like those comments are maybe ok to make in school.
So it enables them to feel ok about commenting, and maybe about sexually assaulting their classmates, since, after all, normal girls must want to have penises near them so they don't get slated on facebook for looking like lesbians.

I'm sorry if I can't be more articulate. I'm trying to make points clearly but I'm really quite angry. My daughter is the same age and I'd hate for her to experience this kind of harassment. I'd also hate for boys and girls in her class to feel they can make those sorts of comments about her lesbian mother to her.

The other sad thing is that nobody called him a rapist. They were pointing at a poster with an image of Mr Grey and singing 'that is what a rapist looks like'. It's a perfectly valid political point.

You can see the camera pan to the poster about 30 seconds into this video.

I've checked and the girl I mentioned isn't in the video, or else I wouldn't share it, I don't think.

I'm mainly sharing this in case anyone hears of this guy coming to a school near you - I really wouldn't want him making those sorts of comments near children and he doesn't seem to have a very good filter, judging from his twitter account.

OP posts:
Original poster
SuperLoudPoppingAction · 18/02/2015 11:18

I forgot to mention - it seems a bit odd that he made such a fuss about the school not buying the books for 7-year-olds to read given the fact that they discuss prostitution.

OP posts:
funnyossity · 18/02/2015 11:26

My son had Muchamore's books.

Knowing nothing of the author I read a bit and found his portrayal of an older woman soooo sexist/ageist unpleasant! I don't plan to pass the crappy books onto the next kid.

Original poster
SuperLoudPoppingAction · 18/02/2015 11:29

That's interesting. I read YA books myself and take DD to meet authors at the local book festivals but hadn't heard of him at all.
I was wondering if he was fostering this kind of sexist persona in order to sell books to teen boys.
I don't think there's any need myself. Darren Shan's books are utterly terrifying but the way he treats female characters is pretty decent and in his own life he's pleasant about/to women. And he has a huge readership.

OP posts:
funnyossity · 18/02/2015 11:36

The covers meant I never delved into Darren Shan! (Total wuss.)

The bit I read of Muchamore was also gritty council estate drug dealery and since I grew up in that sort of place it holds no appeal!

grimbletart · 18/02/2015 12:03

Well, on a totally superficial level, having seen his pic in the Guardian I don't really feel he is in a position to talk about "ugly" women.

Original poster
SuperLoudPoppingAction · 18/02/2015 14:14

Snurk.

And yes, quite.

OP posts:
PuffinsAreFictitious · 18/02/2015 16:02

Another snippet from his Facebook

Thank goodness for JK Rowling!

funnyossity · 18/02/2015 16:06

Yep that's the feel of the work!

PilchardPrincess · 19/02/2015 21:22

Never heard of him.

Was he aware he was aiming his "needs more fucking" comments in part at a 14yo?

What a wanker.

PilchardPrincess · 19/02/2015 21:26

That would be the sort of fucking that involves penises obv .

Doubt he counts any other sort of fucking as fucking.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 10:56

"The only reason I'm raising this publicly, and giving it more oxygen, is that one of the protesters was a 14-year-old girl, who now has to read that she looks as though she hasn't had enough penises near her for her to appear patriarchally-compliant."

"Muchamore made the remarks on his public Facebook page on Sunday. He had gone with friends to see the film Fifty Shades of Grey at the weekend, writing of the “small but noisy group of lesbians (well, ugly women with short hair who I assume were lesbians, and surely hadn’t had a penis anywhere near them in some considerable time) shouting: ‘You’re all rapists,’ to men entering the cinema”."

Charming.

His remarks were undoubtedly tasteless, but people who can't take shit shouldn't hand it out.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 22/02/2015 11:18

Except of course, as reported by women who were actually there, that's not what was being shouted.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 12:35

Was RM there whilst footage was being taken, conclusively proving who said what and when? In the meantime they were happy to point at a picture of some bloke in a suit and chant "that's what a rapist looks like", not 'Christian Grey is a rapist'; I'm inclined to give RM the benefit of the doubt.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 22/02/2015 12:37

Of course you are. That much is crystal clear.

Don't believe the women. Women all lie, innit.

TheGirlFromIpanema · 22/02/2015 12:41

Why though dotheyfloat? Genuine question.

If you are unsure as to which side the facts fall, why would you take his stance over their's?

Hakluyt · 22/02/2015 12:45

He is obviously an attention seeking mysogynist homophobic git with a massive sense of entitlement. But the "slaughter a whining lefty spree" line did make me laugh. Speaking as a whining lefty.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 12:47

"Don't believe the women. Women all lie, innit."

Oh, look, a victim card. How unexpected.

The 60 second video proves what they were saying, for 60 those seconds. There is no indication RM was there at that particular point in time. If you think my reasoning is unsound then please, explain why.

Takver · 22/02/2015 12:53

"I'm inclined to give RM the benefit of the doubt."

I'm struggling to see how the line "ugly women with short hair who I assume were lesbians" has any relationship to anything.

I'd be quite happy to listen to an argument about why this protest was inappropriate. But ad hominem attacks like saying 'these protesters are ugly'? Not so much.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 12:54

TheGirlFromIpanema
"Why though dotheyfloat? Genuine question.

If you are unsure as to which side the facts fall, why would you take his stance over their's?"

" ... they were happy to point at a picture of some bloke in a suit and chant "that's what a rapist looks like", not 'Christian Grey is a rapist'; I'm inclined to give RM the benefit of the doubt.."

  1. They have already established a willingness to make a sweeping statement re: men and rape. It is not unreasonable to imagine they made another, albeit more direct, sweeping statement.

  2. "I'm inclined to believe..." =/= I'm certain everyone else is lying. However much it may suit someone's victim complex to believe otherwise.

TheGirlFromIpanema · 22/02/2015 12:55

Do you have a 60 second video showing what he is saying they said though?

Otherwise the other side win on the basis of evidence presented, surely?

Takver · 22/02/2015 12:59

I'd also agree there's absolutely no need for a sexist persona in order to sell YA books. On the whole I'd say bestselling YA fiction is far less sexist / homophobic than the real world . . .

TheGirlFromIpanema · 22/02/2015 13:00

  1. Pointing to a picture of a rapist, sorry character and saying this is what a rapist looks like is not a sweeping statement though is it? They are pointing out one man/rapist. Hardly sweeping.

  2. So you are inclined to believe the video is doctored? That the one person who makes various shitty comments allover the place is less likely to be lying than the group of protestors?

Weird.

neme · 22/02/2015 13:00

I've talked to DS about RM's books and the way he writes female characters (i.e. not very well at all). I'll be passing this latest info to him as well as a bit of background.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 13:11

TheGirlFromIpanema
"Do you have a 60 second video showing what he is saying they said though?

Otherwise the other side win on the basis of evidence presented, surely?"

As I've said the evidence suggests they are prepared make sweeping statements about men and rape. "That's what a rapist looks like"... what a steaming pile of nonsense. You can't ask a tailor for 'rapist pinstripe' and expect to get a smile and a nod as he walks over to the appropriate roll of fabric. But it implies any man wearing a suit 'looks like a rapist', an appearance which happens to be ubiquitous amongst the male population. So to state that 'all men are rapists' is a relatively small step away from what they have already recorded themselves as saying.

That works against them, not for them.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 13:21

TheGirlFromIpanema
"1) Pointing to a picture of a rapist, sorry character and saying this is what a rapist looks like is not a sweeping statement though is it? They are pointing out one man/rapist. Hardly sweeping."

If a group of men recorded themselves chanting 'that is what a slag looks like' at an image of Anastasia Steele would feminists construe that as an attack on the character or women in general? And if that group were then accused by a single female of saying she was 'asking for it' as she walked into the cinema, would you regard that accusation as plausible based on the video evidence the men had taken of themselves, displaying an attitude towards an image of a female character that was highly derogatory?

TheGirlFromIpanema
"2) So you are inclined to believe the video is doctored?"

I've neither said nor implied that.

" That the one person who makes various shitty comments allover the place is less likely to be lying than the group of protestors?

Weird."

You're conflating having obnoxious opinions with lying. The two are unrelated.