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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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YA author's anti-lesbian,anti-women comments

63 replies

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 18/02/2015 10:43

www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/17/robert-muchamore-apology-lesbian-comments-fifty-shades

Robert Muchamore says protesters against 50 shades of grey were 'ugly women with short hair who I assume were lesbians, and surely hadn’t had a penis anywhere near them in some considerable time' .
If he didn't agree with the protest, he should have explained why and not objectified women and demeaned lesbians.

twitter.com/WomanistNerd/status/566977186910179328

This is a tweet with the screencap of what was actually said.

He has form for being an attention-seeking caricature of blokey awfulness, so I was reluctant to give him more attention.

www.theguardian.com/childrens-books-site/2011/oct/26/robert-muchamore-banned

That's him having a huff that a school for 7-year-olds and up didn't buy his books for their library.

The only reason I'm raising this publicly, and giving it more oxygen, is that one of the protesters was a 14-year-old girl, who now has to read that she looks as though she hasn't had enough penises near her for her to appear patriarchally-compliant.

This is so many kinds of wrong I don't know where to start.

But mainly, this guy's readership is mainly the boys who will already feel like those comments are maybe ok to make in school.
So it enables them to feel ok about commenting, and maybe about sexually assaulting their classmates, since, after all, normal girls must want to have penises near them so they don't get slated on facebook for looking like lesbians.

I'm sorry if I can't be more articulate. I'm trying to make points clearly but I'm really quite angry. My daughter is the same age and I'd hate for her to experience this kind of harassment. I'd also hate for boys and girls in her class to feel they can make those sorts of comments about her lesbian mother to her.

The other sad thing is that nobody called him a rapist. They were pointing at a poster with an image of Mr Grey and singing 'that is what a rapist looks like'. It's a perfectly valid political point.

You can see the camera pan to the poster about 30 seconds into this video.

I've checked and the girl I mentioned isn't in the video, or else I wouldn't share it, I don't think.

I'm mainly sharing this in case anyone hears of this guy coming to a school near you - I really wouldn't want him making those sorts of comments near children and he doesn't seem to have a very good filter, judging from his twitter account.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 22/02/2015 13:23

Actually, the fact that a man in a suit can be a rapist will come as a surprise to a lot of people- the usual image is a man lurking in a back alley in jogging bottoms and a balaclava.................

PilchardPrincess · 22/02/2015 13:39

So you think that saying a 14yo girl needs to be raped by lots of men is an appropriate response to anything.

Righto.

PilchardPrincess · 22/02/2015 13:42

As per your first post on the thread.

In case you forgot that you juxtapositioned those two points, and then said if people can't "take shit" they shouldn't dish it out.

PilchardPrincess · 22/02/2015 13:44

Just read a bit more.

Why are you drawing a parallel between women who enjoy consensual sex, and rapists?

This all seems rather confused.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 22/02/2015 13:45

This happened days ago. He has already apologised and made donations to charity.
He was understandably angry and being called a rapist for going to see a film.
I was more disappointed that he'd been to see the film quite frankly.

PilchardPrincess · 22/02/2015 13:45

Incidentally I have had groups of men shout things like "slag" at me, as have many women.

My response to them was to, um feel a bit vulnerable and get away.

So not sure what that shows really.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 13:51

Dotheyfloat
"His remarks were undoubtedly tasteless..."

PilchardPrincess
"So you think that saying a 14yo girl needs to be raped by lots of men is an appropriate response to anything.

Righto."

  1. WTF? I have no idea what perverted thought process lead you to that conclusion.

  2. RM isn't quoted as saying anything remotely like that.

Pilchard. The name suits you.

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 22/02/2015 13:51

Because, of course, it's not an everyday occurrence for a woman to be called a slag.

Oh wait, it is.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 13:54

PilchardPrincess

"Incidentally I have had groups of men shout things like "slag" at me, as have many women.

My response to them was to, um feel a bit vulnerable and get away.

So not sure what that shows really."

Apart from bad reading comprehension, nothing. Because your anecdote has sweet FA to do with the comparative scenario I was describing.

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 13:59

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom

"Because, of course, it's not an everyday occurrence for a woman to be called a slag.

Oh wait, it is."

Are you talking to yourself because what you've just typed clearly refers to my post but doesn't actually relate to anything in it?

PilchardPrincess · 22/02/2015 14:03

Well his response wasn't to feel a bit vulnerable and get away was it. It was to go out in the media and call them a bunch of ugly dykes who needed a good seeing to / corrective rape.

So his reaction was to be incredibly angry and to lash out with misogynist homophobic language.

When women get groups of men shouting stuff at them their response is to get away because they are scared.

You can't see the relevance of that at all?

But you don't really care about what happens to women and girls do you so not sure why I'm bothering.

You are misrepresenting what happened, and defending a man who came out with a load of misogynistic, homophobic vitriol, with overtones of corrective rape, aimed at a group of people that included a child. So, you know, whatever.

PilchardPrincess · 22/02/2015 14:05

Basically the moment some women behave like men do all the time, but still in a much less threatening way, they need to be kicked as hard as possible.

Pathetic that the kicking of choice is to say you're ugly and you're a dyke and you need more cock to sort you out, I mean it's not exactly original is it.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 22/02/2015 14:06

He has apologised. Repeatedly. He was confronted with what he had done on his Facebook feed and has tried to make amends for what he did.
Yes, the lead male character in the Cherub books is a bit of a twat. But he is forced to confront his homophobia and is regularly given what for by the girls he treats shabbily and many of the characters point out to him that this is what he is doing.
I follow him on Facebook and would say that this is an incident that has already been dealt with.

Hakluyt · 22/02/2015 14:21

Absolutely he has apologised, and given money to charity.

But isn't it a bit strange that he even said it in the first place? That when roused to make an angry response to something a group of women did, the first think he thinks of is to call them ugly sex starved lesbians? He maks his living with words and the use of his wits- and that is is the very front of his mind?

almondcakes · 22/02/2015 14:21

I can't believe we're back to comparing 'slags' to rapists. The reason why there is an issue with calling someone a slag as a slur is because there is nothing wrong with a woman being promiscuous in the first place. It is a sexist judgement on all women to call anyone a slag. It isn't a judgement on all men to call one of them a rapist because being a rapist is a bad thing. Actually, I heard it might be so bad that you can be sent to prison for being a rapist.

almondcakes · 22/02/2015 14:26

I've read one of his books. One of the characters was a gay man who was positively presented.

I think this goes back again to the issue that prejudice against lesbians is very specific. Some people who can accept gay men can't accept the validity of women who are lesbians or not in relationships with men. It is all about these penis dodging women, to paraphrase his far more elegant remarks.

StillLostAtTheStation · 22/02/2015 14:29

I'm mainly sharing this in case anyone hears of this guy coming to a school near you

I've not heard of him. His remarks were disgraceful.

Having watched the video link of the protestors I wouldn't want any of them coming to a school to talk about gender politics either. They sound ridiculous and ignore the fact it's women who made and are buying this tosh.

I suppose if any of you have teenage children then at least you know he is as well as being a nasty piece of work stupid enough to put his thoughts out in the open and you can avoid his books.

I don't understand the 50 Shades phenomenon at all, either the book or the film. I'm not remotely interested in BDSM but those who are seem to be saying it's an inaccurate portrayal. As works of art both seem to be abysmal.

TheGirlFromIpanema · 22/02/2015 14:29

Exactly Hak!

Dotheyfloat are you being deliberately obtuse?

StillLostAtTheStation · 22/02/2015 14:38

almond I agree with what you say but it's not just straight men who are more judgemental about lesbians. I have a gay male friend who is scathing about the fact his lesbian sister's current girlfriend is as he described her " yet another text book butch "

In a discussion with another friend, where we were talking about someone's daughter who had just told her parents she was gay, I was told she wouldn't be in the least bit bothered if her son was gay(and I believe her) but she would find it very difficult if her daughter were.

Hakluyt · 22/02/2015 14:47

Gay men can be knobs too. Who knew?

Dotheyfloat · 22/02/2015 14:49

PilchardPrincess
"Well his response wasn't to feel a bit vulnerable and get away was it. It was to go out in the media and call them a bunch of ugly dykes who needed a good seeing to / corrective rape."

RM
"'ugly women with short hair who I assume were lesbians, and surely hadn’t had a penis anywhere near them in some considerable time' "

He's saying they find men repellent (hadn't had a penis anywhere near them) and that he finds them repellent (ugly women). You've already accused be of demonstrable garbage so I'm not surprised you created words and meanings where they don't exist in the RM quote.

PilchardPrincess
"So his reaction was to be incredibly angry and to lash out with misogynist homophobic language.

When women get groups of men shouting stuff at them their response is to get away because they are scared.

You can't see the relevance of that at all?"

I'm asking whether a women should be believed if she accused them of saying something worse to her off-camera. I was quite clear in how I described the scenario. I was not asking how the women in question would react - that is an entirely different question. Really, this is not complicated.

PilchardPrincess
"But you don't really care about what happens to women and girls do you so not sure why I'm bothering."

Where do you pull this crap from? Try mastering reading plain English before moving on to reading minds.

PilchardPrincess
"You are misrepresenting what happened,..."

More nonsense - please quote me where I've distorted this story.

PilchardPrincess
"...and defending a man who came out with a load of misogynistic, homophobic vitriol, with overtones of corrective rape, aimed at a group of people that included a child. So, you know, whatever.

Dotheyfloat
"His remarks were undoubtedly tasteless..."

How hard can it be for you to read five words and let them sink into your brain? His language was indefensible, he admits that himself. The language used by both parties was distasteful. You appear to find that an unacceptable viewpoint because it doesn't conform to some ideology which seems to render you unable to read and comprehend basic English.

TheGirlFromIpanema
"1) Pointing to a picture of a rapist, sorry character and saying this is what a rapist looks like is not a sweeping statement though is it? They are pointing out one man/rapist. Hardly sweeping."

If a group of men recorded themselves chanting 'that is what a slag looks like' at an image of Anastasia Steele would feminists construe that as an attack on the character or women in general? And if that group were then accused by a single female of saying she was 'asking for it' as she walked into the cinema, would you regard that accusation as plausible based on the video evidence the men had taken of themselves, displaying an attitude towards an image of a female character that was highly derogatory?

TheGirlFromIpanema
"Dotheyfloat are you being deliberately obtuse?"

Are you avoiding answering the key points in two simple questions because the answers to them are 'yes' and 'yes'? Which, when applying the same values to the OP scenario, would support what I've previously said in this thread about the attitudes of the protesters and therefore the likely veracity of RM's claims. Or are you going to instead chime along with the others whining about their feelings and talking about points that have bugger-all to do with the questions I've asked, e.g. complaining about comparing 'slags' and 'rapists'?

PilchardPrincess · 22/02/2015 15:23

Your reaction seems disproportionate and really quite aggressive, Dotheyfloat.

Why is that?

I still don't get why you are drawing parallels between women who like consensual sex, and rapists.

Looking forward to you carefully breaking that down into little bold quotes and addressing things one at a time Grin

It's also interesting that your reaction to the fact of women getting stuff shouted at them by men is basically yet some women posting on the net saying what he said was really out of line (which it was) is apparently beyond the pale and we all need to be shouted at. Oh wait...

TheGirlFromIpanema · 22/02/2015 15:39

Dotheyfloat are you ok dear?

Are you actually RM? Shock

You are going to great lengths to defend him if not...

TheGirlFromIpanema · 22/02/2015 15:44

And why should I answer your pointless hypothetical questions about slags (shudder)

It's not a comparison at all Confused

PuffinsAreFictitious · 22/02/2015 15:46

Oh, look, a victim card. How unexpected.

Bless you. Do you also use the expression race card when you know you've made a stupid an illogical connection when race is involved?

You said that, on balance, despite not having a single clue who said what to whom you were going to give a man who made really nasty suggestions about a 14 year old child needing more pricks in their lives the benefit of the doubt over women who were actually there. Women who have stated that at no time did they accuse him of being a rapist. Please, tell me what other construction could be put on this, other than you believe the women to be lying... which would suggest that you are inclined to believe women lie...

You do seem to have a serious vested interest in defending a man who has a proven record of misogyny, racism and homophobia. Why might that be, do you think?