OK for school to reinforce stereotypes?

[NumptyNu]

DS's school has invited the 'dads' in for a special science-themed day. I'm shocked to say the least. What kind of message does this send to the kids?

A. Science is for boys?
B. It's usual for dads to be out at work, hence the need for a special day for them. Mums do not work, they stay at home and bake cakes for the PTA?

I can see the logic of trying to reach out to the dads, but really? What do you think?

There's a definite issue at secondary school with some boys having no respect for women. They respond better to male teachers and seem to have just got used to tuning out whatever a woman says to them.

The ones with no respect for women are usually (although not always) not in the sets which would be headed for university.

Buffy, speaking from a position of precisely zero experience with teenagers (so feel free to ignore) I'd go for a zero tolerance approach. Next time he says anything disrespectful, tell him it is unacceptable and that if he does it again, you will phone his parents and tell them to take him home. And follow up. And refuse to let him back in your house till he apologises.

I still remember with utter awe the mumsnetter who went up to her son (to give him a cup of tea or something equally offensive) while he was on the Xbox playing a multi player game. He said something grossly offensive about "my mum, that daft bint, she's hassling me, she'll go away in a moment", and the mother saw red and threw the xbox out of an upstairs window! He grovelled and apologised the next day and was apparently a transformed teenager from that day forth.

You know, I really wish I believed that it was just teenaged boys who have trouble with women as authority figures who deserve respect, but I don't really feel it is.

We hear do much about the effect of the increase in the proportion of teachers at all levels who are women and how this means that boys are falling behind. I think that not-very-deeply buried here is the implication that a six year old boy cannot really be expected to listen to women, to respect women's authority and engage fully with women. The fact that we, as a society, don't expect this of boys is the main reason for the problem. When the message is given that young that it's acceptable for boys to tune adult women out, how can we be surprised that boys don't excel? It's nothing that the women teachers are doing wrong, it's the messages that society gives about the women and the children absorb.

Female role models are uninspiring for boys, because women are low status

you see I don't think that is what is going on when we say boys need to see dads reading.

I think it is more like the black child who doesn't think certain careers are open to them because they have never seen anyone like them doing that job. You can't say that the white person is uninspiring for the black kid because they are low status. But the child doesn't see themselves in that role. Same with boys, they can't see themselves in the role of the reader.

But men are shown doing all sorts of things all over the place.
I am positive that as many men as women are shown reading on children's tv.
And reading the news.
And sitting on buses and trains reading newspapers.
And so on.

I do know there is a problem with boys reading and yes it needs tackling but I don't think the problem can be compared directly with eg there being few female role models or black role models (or indeed black female role models!) etc. White men are the dominant force in our society, they run all the businesses, they are massively over-represented in politics, they are present in the vast majority of roles you can think of (under-represented in things like childcare and nursing but I somehow don't think that many people are very concerned about that) and so actually it's something else isn't it.

I think poverty is a big factor isn't it?

I mean yes I know there's an issue but you can't say that white boys in the UK not doing X is due to a lack of role models in the exact same way a black girl not doing Y is.

The black girl who say is interested in Physics might literally have never seen or heard of "someone like her" doing that.

A white boy will not have never seen a white man reading something, it's all over the place.

I do think that to say there is a lack of role models for white boys in the exact same way is just, it's not right is it.

If you had said there's a lack of male role models in nursing and preschool childcare then I'd agree with you. But not reading that's something else and is linked to other factors.

It's definitely a cultural issue, girls not doing maths, boys not doing reading - one that affects the UK, USA, Canada, NZ, Australia, northern Europe. It's not the same in other countries. I have a load of figures somewhere, links to papers on stereotype threat on girls in maths classes, things like that - but I have been ailing today , and just can't be bothered to find them, as I should go to bed instead.

One of the major problems ime is that a large number of adults in those huge swathes of the country are functionally illiterate themselves, and, in the age old tradition of men, not wanting to appear weak in any way, will disparage anything they have difficulties doing. There is a really good reason why The S*n and The Star are written in such a way as to be accessible to the average 8 yr old.

My experience comes from mentoring adult literacy and numeracy for young soldiers, many of whom had managed to spend their entire school career with no one noticing that they couldn't read or write adequately.

Sorry Puffins but your simplistic conclusion that teachers are rubbish simply will not do!

As a teacher myself your teacher-bashing in your last sentence has made me more angry than I can express. Your level of ignorant prejudice is depressing beyond belief.

I wasn't teacher bashing at all, as it happens AICM, so wind your anger back. I am fully aware why a lot of these young men failed at school, thank you, and most of it is to do with their attitudes and sub cultures. With a solid amount of teachers being messed about with regard to arbitrary changes in policy from central government. A good number of young men who join the Army, I me, are also from military families, and may well have experienced several school moves, so it's not hard to see how they fall through the cracks. And yet, fall through the cracks they do, and in worrying numbers, with no one, not their parents, not their schools, their CoC or even their friends noticing that they are functionally illiterate.

Save your vitriol for AIBU, where they actually do bash teachers. And don't assume that you have all the answers, especially when you show you have a breathtaking lack of awareness of the specific issues.

To suggest that 50 consecutive teachers could fail to spot illiteracy and that this is happening to 1000s of children is teacher bashing .

Any teacher can spot an illiterate child after less than 1 week teaching them.

The battle for literacy is not won or lost in schools. It's won or lost in the home. One thing schools can do to help boys in particular is find new ways to engage with their fathers. One good idea could be to hold a day when fathers can come in... oh no wait... scratch that..

To suggest that 50 consecutive teachers could fail to spot illiteracy and that this is happening to 1000s of children is teacher bashing .

No, AICM, it isn't. I'm sorry you don't understand what I'm saying, but you clearly don't. I am not teacher bashing, any more than I am parent, friend or CoC bashing, honestly....!

And yes Callooh, although now the Army at least is taking it's educational responsibility to it's recruits more seriously and ensuring that they all gain at least a GCSE equivalent qualification in literacy and numeracy, and choosing mentors who are able to pass on a love of reading. The mentors I came across were of both sexes, from within and without the Army. It remains to be seen whether it makes a long term difference.

Agree with Buffy about the 'hero' teacher being caught reading.

Maybe some funding they have been able to access which is for the specific purpose of involving fathers in their DC's education.I can't see how it is sexist , it is for both male and female pupils isn't it?

I don't teacher-bash. But there has to be something wrong somewhere when significant numbers of NT children can go through 7 years of education and emerge at the end not able to read well enough to get a level 4c. I agree that the home plays a significant part. But there are many children who don't have supportive homes- do we just shrug and let the cycle continue?

Our primary school invites Dads in fir lunch around Father's Day. Mums have never been invited. Apparently we can "come anytime". Really? Fucks me off.