Is this just me? Women in crime novels

[UncrushedParsley]

This may be a bit of a ramble, so I apologise in advance. I read quite a lot of popular fiction/crime thrillers etc. I am growing increasingly uncomfortable with stories where a woman is kidnapped/abducted/murdered and the descriptions of violence against the woman, both physical and sexual, even if it has a 'happy' ending iuswim. These are often written by women authors, which I find more problematic. On one level I feel it is gratuitous, but on the other hand, am I just seeing a reflection of society? If this is the case, there seems to be much more of this than exists in reality, so the effect is that it adds to the anxiety or feelings of vulnerability that many women already feel around these issues. I have also commented before on how similar things are played out on tv. Is this a problem, or is just me?

Women make lovely victims. You only have to watch police procedural dramas on TV to know that.

I think it's Sardine who coined the expression, "women being horribly murdered" (or similar) to describe what crime novels/series are about.

DH and I are always quite surprised when Criminal Minds doesn't have a woman or a child as victim.

It causes fear among women, and a kind of false sense of security among men. (IMO)

So, it is intentional do you think, or just 'easy witing/easy audience' do you think Puffin?

Have you been reading Sophie Hannah?!

A bit of both Uncrushed.

Innate belief in violence against women being inevitable doesn't help.

I wonder if that's why I love Dorothy Sayers so much? Women are at least as likely to be the co-detective, villain or chief suspect as the corpse in those.

Just stopped reading Good Girl, author female, can get you it if I shift my backside if you want it. Stopped in the early stages becuase of the violence towards the kidnapped woman in the early stages. Started reading What Kind of a Mother Are You, again female author. That makes sense Puffin

Yy bird,(except jeffing thrones, Dominations) are you on the current DLS thread?

I have found Tana French pretty good. But yes I agree about the women murdered horribly vast genre

I posted about Tana French's new novel The Secret Place. I haven't come across any other examples, especially by such a top-selling and mainstream author.

Gosh that was weird traviata, I have zero recollection of my post on that thread!

I read that too traviata. I just think, here we are in 2015 and its still like this. Sooo disapointing.

I read that because of your post!

I find, especially on TV that women are also very often the perpetrator of murder. Massively disproportionally so, in comparison to the actual proportions of RL. Usually with some kind of jealous/spurned/manipulative motive, of course. I often wonder whether it's that disproportionate representation that helps give rise to the old 'women are as bad as men' trope.

I wonder if that's why I love Dorothy Sayers so much? Women are at least as likely to be the co-detective, villain or chief suspect as the corpse in those

And Agatha Christie and Midsomer Murders.

I have enormous difficulty with explicit and violent crime/serial murderers and the like being entertainment , whether the victims are male or female.

Clearly I have contradicted myself in owning up to enjoying Midsomer Murders given its high death count but it's not really comparable to Hannibal Lector.

I've never read her but a friend said a Val McDermid novel was revolting.

I've searched and searched lately on the subject, but to no avail. Yet I know I've seen some statistics about the discrepancy between fictionalised murder victims and real life ones: attractive white females are massively over-represented on TV, film, and even the NEWS.

It's partly to do with the voyeurism which attracts consumers of this narrative in our misogynistic society, but it also dovetails with our expectations of fairy tales and folk stories from childhood, which position beautiful young women as the 'perfect victim'...think about Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White etc.

I think it serves to both sell stuff (news, TV, novels), and to also respond to deeply-held tropes in our collective social psyche about our protective instinct towards women-in-peril. Like the traditional image of the tied-and-bound maiden on the train tracks awaiting rescue, the viewer is at the same time invited to feel anxious and invested, while still somehow eroticising the imagined fate of the heroine/victim.

It's all a bit fucked up if you think about it.

I am a massive fan of Tess Gerritsen's Rizzoli and Isles series, and women are often the victims...but in this case they are the intelligent, strong detectives and scientists too. I must admit, I find myself not as involved if the victim is male. I simply don't care about him or what happens to him. I have no idea why this is.

Scallops, I used to watch Diagnosis Murder, until I realised that around 99% of the murderers were jealous women. Absolutely ridiculous and insulting.

That rings a bell too BOF

There's a DLS thread?? must do tax return not MN

It isn't new, and it's always bothered me, quite a lot. Does the name of 'Lucretia' ring any bells? A roman matron, proper, respectable etc who 2000 years on is still known for having been raped, numerous 'works of art' about it - all called the rape of lucretia, might ring bells that way. How about Europa? Got a lovely statue in my local town commemorating her rape, in the name presumably of internationalism, it's next to all the flags anyway.

My dh occasionally reminds me that murder is also a common subject in artworks of all descriptions, and of course it is. I consider rape to be closer to torture and dislike any artists who spend so long lovingly portraying such an act. And when the performance of that act is so heavily weighted as men against women (and girls) it is hideous.

I really really hate it as 'light entertainment'. I've been accused of wanting to censor 'artworks' (including modern entertainment in that, so not sure if art is really the word) in the past because of it. Would it be censorship if it was a man complaining about gratuitous presentations of male rape? I think not.

Can't imagine a nice statue of male rape in front of a town hall can you?

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/glyndebourne/10391713/Glyndebourne-The-Rape-of-Lucretia-review.html

Lightening some very questionable phrasing in this review of the opera of the same name.

Oh, and since Bofster mentioned fairy princesses if you ever find it you might want to read a fantastic short story by Jenny Diski called 'Shit and Gold' which is a spin on Rumpelstiltskin. I never liked that story, Diski's take sums up why. I've got it in the collection called 'The vanishing princess', which is another good story in there too.

Phaedra...oh. my. god. And then they wonder why so many women are on anti-depressants in this society.

If you look at murder stats from the British Crime Survey you can see that fictionalised murder is very representative.

The group who are at highest risk of being murdered are children under the age of 1

The next highest group is young men aged 16-24, usually by other young men

Women are more likely to be killed by a current/ex partner ( 2 women a week).

Maybe wouldn't make such thrilling reading though...( not that I like books like that, I don't read them )

*NOT very representative!