Is this just me? Women in crime novels

[UncrushedParsley]

This may be a bit of a ramble, so I apologise in advance. I read quite a lot of popular fiction/crime thrillers etc. I am growing increasingly uncomfortable with stories where a woman is kidnapped/abducted/murdered and the descriptions of violence against the woman, both physical and sexual, even if it has a 'happy' ending iuswim. These are often written by women authors, which I find more problematic. On one level I feel it is gratuitous, but on the other hand, am I just seeing a reflection of society? If this is the case, there seems to be much more of this than exists in reality, so the effect is that it adds to the anxiety or feelings of vulnerability that many women already feel around these issues. I have also commented before on how similar things are played out on tv. Is this a problem, or is just me?

On a lighter note may I recommend Neil Gaiman's The Sleeper and the Spindle for a new take on Snow White and the Sleeping Beauty? It's also a beautiful book.

Nosey re those statistics a double or triple whammy really. Murders of women in very improbable circumstances are more interesting than the fact (or the reasons) children and young men are more vulnerable. Or the real circumstances in which women are likely to be victims.

I agree with you OP about the disappointing number of female crime writers who peddle this shit.

I get really pissed off with hearing Val Mcdermid held up as some sort of feminist spokeswoman when her books are of full of horrific and pornographic violence against women.

Uncrushed I agree that the use of women and children ( often little girls) as victims of horrific murder in crime fiction is very disturbing. I also find these stories which often get made into tv series, very lazy and uninspiring. I didn't watch the Fall but was quite pissed off with how magazines were fawning over Jamie Dornan - an attractive rapist anyone?

I agree Silk. Lightening that's horrific isn't it. And if you raise it, you get accused of being proffessionally offended in most cases. Phaedra I agree about the review. It's practically MRA stuff. Almost, 'she enjoyed it really'. Sometimes I avoid exposure to this stuff, as there's only so much of it I can take, and retain a semblance of sanity.

One of the reasons I enjoyed The Wire so much was that it was a program that unflinchingly portrayed drug crime but did not rely on sexual abuse for a storyline. Okay so most of the lead characters were men but there were some strong females too.

Yes I too feel a wave of... revolted boredom when I see yet another beautiful young woman killed in some horrible manner on television. Shown dead and naked of course.

Writers like Harlan Coben, Dennis Lahane Robert Crais, Jonathan Kellerman Sean Black Gregg Hurwitz are all worth a look at. They never veer into unpleasantness and most of the time aren't about women victims.
Harlan Cobens stand alone books often have a woman as the main character and all are strong leads.

I remember reading a book on a plane home once and leaving it in disgust. I can't remember the writer but I had read a couple of their books before, waaaay too graphic with the sexual violence.

I didn't watch the first series of the fall but I managed 1.5 episodes of the second series before it got too much. It was the constant violence and threat and women as prey

I remember watching Clockwork Orange and being horrified. I thought we had moved on from that, but not sure that we have.

Thanks for suggestions Cocolepew haven't heard of a few of those so will investigate

Don't you find Jonathan Kellerman horribly mysogynistic in other ways though...? His portrayal of his girlfriend Robyn for example and the smug way his main protagonist continually congratulates himself on rushing in and 'saving' women and constantly being called 'a nice man' by them??

I take your point about Val McDermid SilkChiffon but the admittedly violent murders are roughly equally divided between men and women aren't they? And at least she has very strong women cop characters.

Agree with ¨Cymrukernow and Uncrushed about the gratuitous use of violence against children as a means of selling your book/tv prog very disturbing. Must be my age because I can't watch it.

agree wityh lots of these posts it,s very upsetting and a lot of it is like porn-cruelty[masquerading hypocritically as feminism of course on condition there.s a strong female detective or something 'for balance']
what gets me is that lots of these writers/actors/producers would despise page 3, and yet what they do is far worse

I actually have gone off JK over the years, he definitely has an ego! I used to read Faye Kellerman as well but her female characters drive me up the way, apart from Marge.

Dennis Lehane books about Patrick and Angie are good. They are PIs and Angie is a strong lead.

Oops Marge is in JK books.

I haven't read any of Val McDermid's Tony Hill books, didn't like the sound of them, but her earlier stuff is well worth seeking out. She had a couple of series with strong female leads, Kate Brannigan and Lindsay Gordon. The victims were of both genders, the violence was never graphic and they were simply bloody good reads.

Not just you OP. I love a good detective novel, but I find lurid descriptions of gore and suffering which is nearly always against women and/ or young girls appalling. I think there is almost a competition amongst authors as to how unpleasant and OTT the violence can be.

IIRC correctly, the Kinsey Millhone series isn't excessively violent and has a great female lead character.

Also, the obsession crime fiction has with murder and serial killers is very boring, there are other crimes out there. There was a great Belgian drama on BBC4 called Salamander, which focused on the fall out of a bank robbery of safety deposit boxes belonging to various high-ranking people. It made a refreshing change from the usual murder mystery.

Kinsey Millhone is great, and there is always V.I.Warshawski too fall back on.

I used to love Val McDermid's Kate Brannigan, but read one Tony Hill book and TBH it put me off trying most new crime books just in case. I don't want to read about sadism, or even have it in the house. I don't need those images in my head, it doesn't enhance my life.

Yes to Kinsey Millhone! And of course, V.I.

Thanks for confirming that Tony Hill is to be avoided.

V.I is great. She's like rambo (inappropriate comparison?) but better.

I've read one Tami Hoeg - Deep water or some such title. Has she been mentioned? It's awful. I only finished it out of incredulity.

I agree that women are also overrepresented as the murderers in crime thrillers, especially on TV, like Lewis, Midsomer Murders, Morse- but unlike the victims, they are always middle-aged ladies who aren't so attractive as the corpse.

I must have missed all the news reports on jealous matronly mid-life aged ladies killing to protect their sons/bumping off their love rival/blackmailing everyone.

Ha ha, during my MN I wrote an essay about Femme fatale in the 1940's Hollywood cinema. An independent woman had to always to punished for her 'sins' of, erm, independence. Should be a virgin or a mother, otherwise is just a whore.

I read the early Scarpettas, but Patricia Cornwell just seemed to get increasingly strange.

Jemima Shore, Cordelia Grey, or even Miss Marple?

Well, JK seemed to realise he'd made Alex a bit of a dick, Robyn left him for a bit, some other women left him for a bit he admits to himself he's 'saving' people for his own ego massaging ends...

DSL is still one of my favourites.

I think part of the problem is the whole serial killer trope of intelligent male hunting vulnerable (white, pretty, single) women) while clever detectives then hunt him. It's very pervasive and easy to write to.