Anti rape posters by Manchester Police

[tethersend]

Well done them

Makes a refreshing change, no?

Hopefully the message in these posters will be rolled out nationally and replace the ones telling victims not to drink or get cabs home

Happily, the vast vast vast majority of the time, people who have got pissed and had consensual sex don't report anyone to the police.

They only report to the police if they have been raped, if they think well hold on I didn't consent and look what happened there. And even then most of the time they won't report anyway.

Realistically if someone is enthusiastic and able to control their limbs then that's good isn't it. If they can't stand up / talk / are talking rubbish / or are passing in and out of consciousness then wise to call it quits, which is what the poster addresses.

And realistically if it means that some people don't have sex when it would have been fine to do so, that's better than anyone having sex when actually it's not fine to do so, I think? People in the first group can always have a fuck later / in the morning.

Oh we NEVER had anything whatsoever mentioned about consent issues at school / university, I suspect that is a generational thing.

• yeah the one thing led to another thing was a bit weird but the poster is great so step in the right direction right?

I don't think "one thing led to another" is meant in the way it sounds.

"If she's too drunk to consent, assume she hasn't given it."

I think the work 'assume' is in there because it puts the onus back on the would-be (although possibly unknowing, scary as that is) rapist that it is their responsibility to not take advantage of a women in a compromising position. In marketing that last sentence is known as a 'call to action' - you are asking the target of your message to 'do something' (eg buy your product, call a toll free number etc). So the call to action in this ad is saying 'Don't take consent as a given, just because she's had too much to drink.'

Zazzles I think you summed it up perfectly

They put these posters in women's clothes shop changing rooms now? Jesus hates shopping

Yep.

I guess so that you can be reminded while buying a party frock just what might be done to you as a result of wearing that frock and going out.

Like I say, it fucks me off no end, it really does.

Erm these posters are in the wrong place, as the intended target of the ad is men. These ads need to go in places that men will see - the men's loos, betting shops, [the men's loos in] pubs and clubs, etc. The intended target of these ads is not women , so the way they are using the posters is completely inappropriate and problematic.

And a meme just for this alone:

No no the TFL ones are in shops!

The ones in the OP are up around universities if I understood the article correctly.

Opps I may have confused issues, the "don't get in a taxi" ones are in changing rooms, as well as bus stops, tube stations...

Hopefully the better ones from Manchester are also better placed!

Ah cool!

Thinking about this prompted me to read more about the Warboys case; just saw in the police complaints report that they didn't bother to search his cab because "The victim cannot remember anything past getting in the cab. It would seem unlikely that a cab driver would have alcohol in his vehicle, let alone drug substances." Seriously?

This shows why the "illegal cabs and being a slag running around drunk in the dark with your tits out will get you raped, everything else = safe" campaigns and advice aren't just incorrect, they are downright dangerous. I wish conscious and unconscious victim blamers could see this.

Yes that case was appalling Katee and featured the Met turning victims away from the Sapphire unit which is supposed to be specialised for sex crimes.

The whole thing beggared belief and then after the investigations it was "lessons learned" blah and there have been a string of other stuff around the Met's handling of sex crimes as well (not to mention them being in the pockets of journos and corrupt and loads of other stuff).

Another poster campaign this one by a university, no police involvement sadly but a good start. Hopefully this is the start of a turning tide

What if the man is also too drunk to consent or to ask for consent and they both have sex? Why should the onus only be on the man to get consent? I like the posters but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that two legless people could have a drunken fumble (as I have in the past) and the man could be accused of rape after when he was in exactly the same state. If the man is sober or only a little tipsy and deliberately got someone drunk and incoherent then of course that's different. If they're both as drunk as each other then surely they're equally responsible? Just something that troubles me somewhat.

But yes, the posters are a step in the right direction still.

If they're both as drunk as each other then surely they're equally responsible? Just something that troubles me somewhat.

I think the point is that, if both parties are sufficiently drunk not to be able to consent, it's very unlikely that they will be sufficiently compos mentis to actually get it on. I expect that the scenario you're describing would be deemed to fall in the 'drunken consent is still consent' category.

I wonder if there could be a bit more clarity about where the 'line' is (not in these posters, which are great, but more generally). I have seen it misrepresented in some places (including on this board) as 'drunken sex is rape', which of course isn't the deal. My concern is, I suppose, that we end up giving men a message that doesn't tally with their real-life experiences (which could include plenty of consensual, happy, pissed-up shagging). And that, in doing so, the correct, and valuable, message gets undermined.

I think these posters are a very good thing I really do, but I don't get why people are so against the messages to women to protect themselves too?
Usually I hate victim blaming but I don't think saying 'don't put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation' is a bad thing. It's like leaving your front door open and valuables around, if it gets robbed are you not partly to blame? Insurance companies certainly think so! So if you get off your face, you wander off from your friends with a random guy in the dead of night and something untoward happens surely the lesson should be, be responsible and look after yourself better? Obviously the rapists are always in the wrong of course and these posters making grey areas slightly more black & white are great but sometimes the victim does need to accept thy she put herself in a dangerous situation and you can't control other peoples actions so you should think more carefully about your own
runs and hides

I hate all the don't get drunk don't wear skirts kind of advice Buffy I think that's all twoddle, it's not about sexiness to a rapist it's about power
I just think 'don't put yourself into a dangerous situation' is bad advice
And not just on the rape issue, just being careful and not being alone on nights out could prevent you from being beat up, robbed, murdered or raped/sexually assaulted
I think the anti-rape messages should be aimed more at men like this poster, but I don't think at the cost of the general 'be careful/be aware' messages to women, I think both are needed

BuffyWithChristmasEarings wrote - "The current approach to rape safety messages would be like there being lots of dire warnings about radon exposure that mean some people have to make quite significant changes to their lives and curtailments to their personal freedom, while totally ignoring the role of tobacco."

Yes, and there would be warnings like "to avoid lung cancer, don't live in or visit Cornwall or Scandinavia" (which are areas of relatively high radon exposure).