Reasons I can't be a feminist; according to others. . .

[WellnowImFucked]

Because I like and am good at baking.

Because I wear lipstick.

Because I'm straight.

Because OH carries my work bag for me.

And currently number one on my list, 'you can't be a feminist, you always wear such nice shoes'

I'm laugh if it wasn't so fucking sad

We need a whole TV series to walk everyone through this - not sure who would present, but that's a fun discussion - sort of Feminism by numbers for anyone born after, i dunno, 1985??

Zazzles that link is really depressing.

You either can't be a feminist because you do the things people think feminists don't do, or you can't be doing things you don't want to do because you are a feminist and therefore all you do are what you chose to do freely. IYKWIM. I don't know which one makes me want to cry more.

Oh dear. I fit lots of the stereotypes including very short hair and a live of Dr martens. But I guess I let the side down with that pesky husband, my love of bright red lippy , my shoe and handbag obsession and my girly weakness and frailty. ....
funny thing is that I thought all it took to be a feminist was to believe in equality. Silly me.

I wear make up, love pretty clothes and jewellery, have dyed my hair blonde ( as it's going grey), but I'm a fucking kick ass feminist! As women we have to negotiate a lot of contradictions but it doesn't affect what you know in your heart is right.

that link is really depressing

Ain't it just

I wear make up, love pretty clothes and jewellery... but I'm a fucking kick ass feminist!

Me too. And as much as I love my Patriarchal Shoes of Fuckability (thanks FWR for that term - a gay male friend found that hilarious), I recognise that while my appearance suggests that I am conforming, my thoughts, feelings and actions would definitely tell you that I am not.

Copy post: lemisscared (great post btw)

"16/11/2014 17:17 lemisscared

Because i am a sahm and dd is at school"

I hear this on this website a lot. But actually phrased "YOU cannot be a feminist because YOUR'E a sahm." (Whether dcs at school or not)

Because work is only work when you're paid. And if you don't work you are neither a woman or part of womankind.

And this is mumsnet. That's when I get really cross.

The common threads in that tumblr for womenagainstfeminism seem to be a view that feminists are :

• man-haters
• with a victim complex
• who do not engage in traditionally feminine activities.

The "victim complex" one I found interesting, since I hadn't encountered it before. It basically stems from disagreement about whether or not there is a patriarchy, and whether or not it is oppressive, I guess. Which is such a fundamental difference in basic assumptions that I don't see how people on the two sides can even begin to dialogue.

Back to the OP: I've never had any trouble being accepted as a feminist, despite my heels and skirts and my love of cooking and sewing. The trouble is then that I am asked to represent all of feminism while men either try to mansplain at me, or else demand that I coach them through Feminism 101 and then get tetchy about how I'm a bad feminist going against my own cause when I tell them to go educate their own selves.

So clearly, we are all doing feminism wrong.

But elegantly wrong at least

Thanks for all the very witty comments!!

Sorry I was off doing non feminist things like working full time, paying my bills, sitting on my ass drinking wine while himself made dinner

I recognise that situation Goats what a bad bad feminist you are in assuming that men have the intelligence and capability of doing their own research. . . . .And expecting them to take responsibility to educate themselves, you're just a lost cause arent you

I'm hearing more of shit like that, by that I mean Feminist = shrill man hater, in light of the recent rape cases, including the mind twisting opinions that if women took more responsibility for mens behaviour there'd be less rape. . . .

A bit of verbal digging resulted in the true meaning: if women let men have sex with them more there'd be less rape. After pointing out that women don't 'let' men have sex with them, people have sex together, if its not a mutual choice its rape. I was told I was naive, and needed to educate myself.

Sometimes I really do despair

After pointing out that women don't 'let' men have sex with them, people have sex together, if its not a mutual choice its rape. I was told I was naive, and needed to educate myself.

Omg Wellnow, I am shocked at this - sometimes this board really is a haven of rationality!

""The trouble is then that I am asked to represent all of feminism while men either try to mansplain at me, or else demand that I coach them through Feminism 101 and then get tetchy about how I'm a bad feminist going against my own cause when I tell them to go educate their own selves."

Oh my god! I thought this was me talking, I had this exact argument with someone yesterday! They asked my opinion on something, I gave it, then they said it was gross hypocrisy because while I could see the issue, it was a minor one for me personally, and they were annoyed that I did not give an explanation for this. Then they accused me of overreacting, and instead I should have seen it as an opportunity to engage with him about feminism to try and convince him. Then I said it's not my job to educate him, and he said he didn't say it was , I said "you just did!" and I basically got brushed off, as I was obviously picking a fight...

Argh I am so glad I am not the only one dealing with this nonsense. I'm not mad, am I?

Why do people not get it?!

Because they don't want to. It's uncomfortable for them. Admitting privilege would make them "bad", and admitting oppression would make them, ah... well, where we are. Fucked off and feeling angry and helpless about it.

I'm not mad, am I?

No, you're not mad Katee - there are some posters who post here, and I think , but you aren't one of those.

Oh wait, you probably meant why don't people get that they can educate themselves and why it's not our job to be goaded by them while they triumphantly refute what we say do it for them in the same way that shitwork in general should not have to befall women .

Ha Goats you were right first time about what I meant, but the second thing totally makes sense as well.

I am all up for discussing things with people (I've only started posting here recently, but have read for absolute ages, I was prompted by the "why does no one post here?" threads because it made me realise I didn't really have a reason not to, these are people I want to engage with). I have had some differences of opinion with some posters, mainly about dance and clothes; some of their points have given me food for thought, some of mine have given them the same I hope. But I was never told "well you're not a feminist, then". It's funny how the only people who seem to accuse me of being unfeminist is non-femists trying to make me look silly.

Or I had another theory the other day; they are not trying to make me look silly, perhaps. Rather, they are trying to give me advice and suggesting that identifying as one will damage my reputation, "oh you're not a feminist, that's ghastly, dear!" It's one thing when it's on an internet board but when it's happening in real life with people who I thought were respectful and forward thinking, I really struggle. I guess the internet weirdos have to come from somewhere!

Oh Goats, I love you. . . .

Oh bugger have I just give fuel to the fire that we're all angry lesbians???

Cause being able to 'catch' a man changes your sexuality dont ya know!!

zero I have a friend who actually said: "I think it's right that women are paid less, because when I'm at work I can't concentrate as I'm thinking about my baby."

This was a professional, educated woman. The look on my face said it all.

Later she texted me saying "I was talking to my husband and he thinks that women and men should be paid the same." (ie, because my husband told me this I have changed my mind to agree with him).

In the recent past I have managed twice to point people to the fact that they can educate themselves and it's not my responsibility to do so. Once I even gave them references. The third time I just went on a rant about all the shit that I see happening to me falling right out of the catalogue of how women are treated.

Don't know what I'll do next time.

Please be gentle with me because I don't mean to antagonise anyone....cards on the table - i am a man. I am not knowledgable about feminist theory and i have some vague notions that I think I've had since a teenager.

Women's fashion is a mystery to me, 70% of it seems designed to objectify women. Women buy into this, tottering down the road in wildly impractical high heeled shows that make their (perfectly shaved and moisturised I assume) bare legs look longer and "sexier". Then there is the complaint that men objectify women. Seriously - what purpose to high heels or push up bras have ? So I can see perfectly well why someone would think that choosing to dress in a way that sexualises yourself would diminish your feminist credentials, i suppose I think it to an extent myself which is why i'm posting - i am keen to understand what I'm getting wrong here.

I should also add that i found myself questioning the feminist credentials of a woman who sends her kids to private school so bear with me....

Should women be able to wear what the want and go about life unmolested ? - that goes without saying and I don't want to get into any discussion about the right to wear whatever you want.

There is plenty of feminist theory on this (so do read it). It's all pretty obvious once you think twice, actually. Do you notice how society treats women who don't perform femininity?

Jeanne - Yes i know, i appreciate how society treats women who don't conform to feminine ideals , Mary Beard for example (which i find an utter outrage and think AA Gill should've been sacked for, but lets not get too far off topic). But the question is more why women would choose this - which is what some posters here are saying, they don't wear high heels because of societal expectations.

I think you need to read the theory. I've just explained why women would make these decisions.

I'm 5'3 and wear heels to job interviews to make me look less like a teenager. (Sometimes; other times I don't bother and hope the person interviewing doesn't judge me for being the height of a teenager). This is not baseless paranoia - I have heard several people judge female interview candidates on their choice of shoe, clothes and make up. I worked in recruitment once and heard a lot of this. All they care about with the male candidates was whether their clothing was smart enough for the type of interview, not whether they were sufficiently fashionable and decorative.

I sometimes wear heels for work events (conferences, canapé receptions etc) so that I can hear the conversations going on around me. Standing around far taller people having a conversation over your head and ignoring you is difficult.

I wear heels to weddings because they look nice sometimes, but I take flats for the disco, amd I never wear heels clubbing because they impede my dancing.

I wear flats most often, partly because I am clumsy and fall over a lot. I know women who love heels, don't find them at all painful and can happily drive, run for the bus, do a supermarket shop etc in high stilettos. They can still be feminists. They are not wearing heels with the aim of being objectified, they just like a particular type of shoe.

My brother's office doesn't have a dress code but he loves wearing suits and ties and shoes, so that's what he chooses to wear. Other men prefer to wear t shirts and trainers and would feel uncomfortable in a suit and tie if they didn't have to wear it. My brother js not wearing a suit to look sexy for women, he just likes suits. It is not a political statement or attempt to attract a mate. It's the same for women who wear certain clothes.