Does anyone know the article about "prostitute", "sex worker" etc not being the correct terminology

[WeDONTneedanotherhero]

It was shared on here years ago, I can't remember who wrote it but it very clearly explain why the terms "prostitute", "sex worker" etc are not acceptable terms to use.

Could someone share the link please, thanks.

"A child of 17 years, 364 days is a victim of child sex abuse, not a child prostitute, so they do need to be considered in a different way than we'd regard an adult of say 24 deciding to work as a prostitute, whether on the streets, in a brothel, or independently.

And yet adults in prostitution are considered to be exercising free choice regardless of how old they were when they started.

I would certainly consider a prostitute with a "lover boy pimp" to be a victim of DV, and in a quite different group from those who choose the work. (And yes, we can then discuss how free that choice is again... But do we really have to?)!

Domestic violence suggests a relationship, not a pretence of a relationship with the goal of prostitution. I know it is up comfortable for pro-pimps to consider these situations but, yes, you really have to.

Most adults in prostitution started as adults. Some victims of CSA go on to work as prostitutes, and I would agree that theirs is not a free choice if it's a continuation of that CSA.

You used the phrase "lover boy pimp", that does suggest to me that there is some sort of relationship, at least as perceived by the prostitute, hence my saying it's a form of DV (and probably also involving other forms of DV).

Are you suggesting I am pro-pimp? I find that rather insulting, and can assure you I am not, and will not be coerced by you, or anyone else, into yet another pointless discussion on the nature of "free choice".

Most adults in prostitution started as adults

You think this but there is evidence to the contrary. Even if you are right, what about those who don't? Is it okay if 51% of women start in prostitution as adults?

Have you actually read anything about lover boy pimps? There is no relationship. It is a trap, nothing more nor less.

I will qualify my statement; most adults in prostitution in the UK started as adults. The situation globally may be different, but then we're back to lies, damned lies and statistics, not to mention laden agendas, and I don't think any of that advances this particular discussion.

I did not say that "lover boy pimps" are in relationships, but that the prostitutes, or in such cases "prostituted women" (sometimes your favoured terminology fits) think they are. Otherwise why the "lover boy" descriptor?

If 51% of adult women entered prostitution, prices would soon drop, I'm sure that would delight the likes of NIK...

Vile, just vile.

That works as an argument.

It was in the context of, if they're pimped out by lover boy until the age of 17 years, 364 days as victims of CSA, they don't suddenly become free agents the following day. When a child has been subject to CSA but has escaped/been rescued from that situation, and later goes back as an adult (with a gap of some years) I think it's a bit more complex. If they have used those years to gain a degree or other qualifications, and have worked in "respectable" jobs (and so have options) and yet choose to work, perhaps part-time, as an independent prostitute, who are we to say that's not as free a choice as that made by a similar person who was not a victim of CSA? I hate the theory that goes, victim of CSA becomes prostitute (years down the line), oh well, that was inevitable. It's insulting to victims of CSA, iyswim?

The sex industry is wrong. Dressing it up with softer words doesn't make it less wrong.

"Feminists" trying to defend it as a valid career choice or, heaven help us" empowering" are at best misguided and at worst colluding with exploitation.

Prostitute and stripper are ugly words. Good- they relate to ugly concepts which are damaging , exploitative and degrading to all involved.

Musing in response to your muses, Buffy... It's one thing to say "there's nothing to be ashamed of", but plenty of people disagree. I have heard of women being forced to move home because the neighbours found out and put dog shit through the door, shouted at their dc in the street that mummy's a whore. Losing "respectable" jobs for "bringing disrepute" upon their employers (because that really helps exiting the sex industry, huh?) Being abused in the streets, shops, on the school run, as well as in (inevitable?) emails, FB, Twitter. There's talk of being "reduced" to prostitution, in the post just after yours, Phaedra says "degrading". All of these things designed and intended to shame, because there is a stigma attached.

Where does this stigma come from? I think that could be a whole other thread on it's own, but a few ideas occur. Is it because women have been "reduced" to this because they're not the protected property of a man, so survival prostitution is the only option? Shame that they're somehow not "good enough" to have and keep their own man... Is it because a "willing" SW (who is not engaged in survival prostitution, although it pays the bills) is transgressive in her sexual behaviour; women are not supposed to be happily promiscuous, and to make a healthy profit from it upsets a patriarchal norm?

I don't know, but it's interesting to explore ideas.

The use of "industry" is colluding to make it sound better. I'm responding to this thread and the suggestions by some we should not use loaded or judgemental terminology. I disagree with that view.

Phaedra says "degrading".

I said to all. I include the users in that whether or not they might think of themselves as such. It is an "industry " which dehumanises all involved.

I agree that prostitution and stripping damaging, exploitatitve and degrading. I don't say this to shame women in prostitution or strippers so your statement about intent is wrong.

I object to "sex worker" but I don't object so strongly to the use of "sex industry" or "sex trade" because it is the women who are commoditised and sold in the industry and I don't feel it has the same colluding effect. Sheila Jeffreys wrote the Industrial Vagina and she certainly wasn't colluding.

Phaedra there are plenty of feminists on this board who are against prostitution and do not consider it a valid career choice nor empowering.

Are you new to FWR, Phraeda ? The reason I ask that is because the majority of feminists on here do not support the sex industry at all and there have been countless long running arguments discussions about how generally damaging it is for both women, men and children. Most of them are a complete waste of time and achieve nothing but bad feeling all around.

In the light of recent threads about people feeling inhibited about posting here, I am trying to not contribute to thread derails, listen a bit more, stay more strictly on topic and not post knee jerk reactions to things I find uncomfortable. That does not mean I have changed my view in any way.

Oh bugger, now I'll get slated for asking if someone is new to the FWR topics. Sigh.

But is the correlation "so strong"? The stats are very dodgy, and based mainly on women (usually involved in exit programmes) who have been/are streetworking. It is estimated (there are no reliable figures) that 8-12% of UK prostitutes are streetworkers, that means that about 90% of UK prostitutes are indoor workers, and very little research has been done with them.

Given that at least 25% of all women will be subject to sexual abuse at some point, it can be no big surprise that a large number of sex workers have previously experienced sexual abuse. According to WA stats, 2 women a week are murdered by the men who are supposed to love and support them; that number hasn't changed since I worked with WA over 20 years ago, so either the stats haven't been updated or being in a relationship with a man is actually more dangerous than working as a prostitute.

As noted upthread, lies, damned lies, and statistics.

And please, please, please can we ditch the "women and girls" bollox; girls do not "enter prostitution", they are victims of CSA.

OLKB the correlation on DV amongst Sex Workers comes from a 2004 study of incarcerated street workers, so the chance of a bias result was pretty heavy given the sample as you pointed out was dodgy to start with. Given that the original assumption was biased it is easy to see why follow ups have continually focused on street worker and using that to generate end demand campaigns that are likely to cause more deaths and injuries in sex work as the sex workers will not have any real protection like being able to work together or even employ maids. As pointed out upthread there is no health and safety and can't be while the industry is illegal. Realistically so long as currency exists there will be supply and demand and the best protection for women in the industry is legislation. Police can then focus on those who are working illegally which will be your trafficked victims and victims of Child Abuse.

Realistic Zoning would also protect those of us that don't want it on streets in our neighbourhood.

Empire if you set out to disregard as many women as possible (e.g. if they did not go straight into prostitution following the abuse as OLKB suggests) and shut your eyes and close your ears to situations you want to avoid, you would say there is no correlation. If you base your views on privileged bloggers who say they have never met a trafficked or coerced woman in 20 years of prostitution or on your neighbour and her empowerfulised sexy-fun stripping, you can disregard the pile of research because... agenda