Woman receives rape threats after recording sexual harassment walking New York streets

[Scarletohello]

Bloody hell!

Article and video here

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/oct/29/woman-records-10-hours-of-harassment-walking-through-new-york

I also think the fact she was with a friend changes the dynamics of the situation.

I suspect that you also did subconsciously weigh up the situation, look at body language and think it was probably OK to approach her, Mengog. However, I won't be recommending it to my sons .

And yes worldgonecrazy those men don't care how the women they are intimidating, feel. And I think they use the excuses of the woman being attractive etc to justify their actions. It is their right to speak to attractive women after all. Because women are here to be attractive to men.

I'm going to stop now. I could rant about this for hours and hours and my blood pressure is beginning to soar!

If these men shout 'Damn!', 'nice ass!' etc etc etc to passing men as well as women, I think we could class them as outgoing, just passing the time of day and so on. If not, I think we have to find another word for it.

Worldgonecrazy has nearly got it bang on. I was alone, her and her friend did give each other a few looks when I offered the number, but the friend nodded. It was more of a lunchtime coffee situation. We talked for 45 seconds at most.

I did also mention I worked at the police station (which by no accident we were stood outside of) furthermore trying make her feel that I'm a normal non crazy guy.

It is their right to speak to attractive women after all.

That seems to be the key to it. If she had actually responded to each remark she would have spent half her day interacting with strangers - why the fuck should she? She's walking down a street, she's busy with her own thoughts, why does she need to break off constantly to deal with strangers who appear to have nothing interesting to say?

Her time isn't valuable, because her job is to respond to men who find her attractive.

@Cherrypi - as an American living in London, I thought I'd wade in on this. It is absolutely the same in London as it is in New York. As it is EVERYWHERE, which the Everyday Sexism project has highlighted (although definitely worse in some countries than in others). This is a global problem and the fact that so many people's first reaction is 'oh does this happen here?' is, to me, infuriating, and diminishes the issue. That is not the question people should be asking!

Just FYI - the question should be: 'why does society think it is OK for men to harass and intimidate women in the street?'...!!! Some really great posts above to get started on answering that.

I think there needs to be a seperaration of two points here. First off I think people are always going to meet in passing, and I don't think every time a guy strikes up a conversation with a woman he doesn't know he is being entitled, and also believe it or not women are perfectly capable of approaching men and striking up a conversation, such has happened to me many times.

That said this video highlights a major problem, the woman in question was not telegraphing in any way shape or form a desire to socialise or communicate. Reading her body language she had the look of a person who was simply trying to get from A to B through the medium of walking! Her being beautiful was beside the point, and it looked to me like she was just wearing comfortable clothes.

Another point that I think is indefensible are that the comments were exclusively directed at her appearance. I am struggling to think of many occasions where women have approached me and blurted out anything overtly sexual or objectifying like that, and she had what 100 instances in 10 hours? That's like one every six minutes, and I think that would be enough to piss me off immensely. Especially if I was just happy in my own headspace trying to get somewhere.

Nobody is saying that men should not approach women ever. The simple key word is to do it with respect. Don't hassle, take account of verbal and non verbal cues and most of all don't be a dick.. Interaction between the sexes should be mutually fun and welcomed, it makes the world go round after all.

The threats are absolutely beyond the pail, but I'm a country kid. If someone speaks to me, I nod, I smile, I go on my way. I don't think of it as haressment.

Seen the video and I thought, we have all experienced that, but watching a video made me feel even more angry and disgusted. And scared when the idiot kept walking alongside her.

The idiot walking beside her was creepy, but in reality we would have slowed down, speeded up, stopped and looked in a shop window.

It was an unnatural situation, he must of been puzzled why she didn't react at all.

I think it would be the same in London but in a different accent. Would be interesting if they did it several world capitals to hammer home the point.

I do think that an approach including things like "I hope you don't mind me saying this..." Respectful distance, making it obvious through body language and verbal language that walking off will have no negative consequences, being aware of how the woman may be seeing it (eg doing it in daylight) is different to "nice-assery"

Some people take issue with that stance though, Yonic. Some people on this very discussion. And I know we are never going to all agree on everything, but it can make it unclear as to whether any approach is completely off-limits, or whether it is sometimes acceptable.

Good old Fox news I wonder if the point made a whooshing noise as it whizzed over his head

" it can make it unclear as to whether any approach is completely off-limits, or whether it is sometimes acceptable"

That's because all people are different, yes? This board doesn't set societal rules unfortunately

There isn't going to be a rule that works for everyone. So if you want to be 100% certain of not inadvertently upsetting a woman, don't approach her on the street. If you want to be fairly certain of not upsetting her, approach her carefully, watch her body language, back off immediately if there is any vibe of discomfort. Put her reaction above your own interest.

Men can perfectly readily read body language in other situations (eg is now a good time to interrupt the boss? Make a judgement, pick your moment, leave it if it looks like a bad time, pull back quickly if you try but get a brusque response etc) - but most street harassment has NOTHING to do with thinking there might possibly be a mutual interest but getting it wrong and quickly withdrawing...

I find that video extremely problematic, I wasn't sure how to explain my issues with it but luckily for me slate already has

I tried to comment on this yesterday but it didn't work.

I have shared this on Fb and Twitter and read various comments and fuck me it's so depressing that so many people, including women just don't get it. We are so conditioned to see this as acceptable when it bloody well is not!

Note the bit where the Fox news presenters say the street is those men's bar and she is walking through it ergo it's ok for them to comment... So basically the street, public space is MENS space... Arghh

I hate how some men just think they have the right to approach women and talk to them.

Not long ago, I was on my way into a shopping centre with my son, and some guy asked me the time. I didn't have it on me, so I apologised and tried to carry on. He started asking me personal questions, like my name and age, and questions about my baby. I told him 'look, there's a clock tower over there with the time on it' and he ignored me- he obviously didn't give a shit about the time, he was using it as a hook to talk to me. I started walking away from him, and he followed me (as in, walking next to me) for a good few minutes, much like one of the men in the video. I was desperately trying to spot a security guard to no avail, and eventually I just snapped and said 'Can you leave me alone please?'. He was like 'okay' and buggered off. Then I ended up feeling guilty somehow. I was so spooked- I have some anxiety problems.

I almost didn't post that link because I dont want to derail the conversation. i am aware from the recent threads on trans activism how problematic it is to focus on one small part of a broader picture because it doesn't suit my narrative.

However I don't think I am doing that, this video gives a skewed idea of street harassment which I think in the long term is detrimental to all women.

I think it's giving a skewed view of street harassment in terms of racial profile, certainly (and I think its a really good point to make), but it's still 100% men doing the harassing.

Anecdotally, every woman on this thread has recognised aspects of that video happening to them. Other threads about street harassment and public spaces are exactly the same. Everyday Sexism and Hollaback! are inundated with stories from women about this type of stuff.

So I'm not sure why you think it's detrimental to all women (genuine question - not trying to be antagonistic).

I'm just at Fox News saying she was basically walking through 'men's space' and therefore deserved to be verbally abused.

I must admit I haven't faced quite that level of abuse in London but in the city I live in in the West Midlands I had an experience last year when I was in IKEA in the queue. There was a guy standing behind me who then left the queue and was standing on the other side of the cash registers and kept staring at me. When I had paid, I walked out of the shop. He walked behind me and initially turned towards the car park exit. I was walking out the front exit and he then changed his direction and walked out of the exit I'd just left. I then went to a supermarket over the road and lo and behold he was there! He wasn't shopping, just hanging about. I started to get a bit creeped out by this point. I thought of talking to a security guard but I didn't thin I'd be taken seriously. I then hid behind a pillar and I could see he was looking around. I then legged it up the stairs to the other part of the store and walked out quickly. I had left the store and was walking along the precinct and I looked behind to see he had come out of the store and was looking around. I felt very threatened and managed to disappear inside another shop that lead to a shopping centre. Really freaked me out. I was glad I managed to give him the slip, I dread to think why he was following me ( which he obviously was...). I'm in my 40s by the way.

And another example. A few months ago I was meeting a male friend outside Birmingham train station. I was with my friend just chatting when a very drunk man came up to me and said you're very attractive ( in a kind of accusatory tone ) I didn't know what to say to him, so I just said thank you, he then said thank you back but in a mocking tone. The guy I was with did nothing. What do you say when someone comes up to you and says stuff like that. He wasn't being nice as he was pissed out of his face. Sometimes I wish I was a bloke and could just whack these guys in the face. But I can't.

< sigh >

If you could whack them, they wouldn't do it. Bet that drunk guy had enough sense of self preservation not to walk up to another guy and say "you look really rich" or "you look really smart" or whatever..