Would you get rid of the titles "Miss" and "Mrs" and use just "Ms" if you could?

[peppaistired]

I would like to campaign somewhere about this. I don't see the point in having so many titles around for women, and only one and simple for men: "Mr"
After all, why should people or society care if we're married, or single? They don't seem to care in the case of men, why is there still an issue with women's marital status?

[HeartsTrumpDiamonds]

I'm from Canada where pretty much every grown woman is Ms. However over here it has a bit of a negative connotation somehow. I work in a traditional place in a very traditional industry and I am Mrs there. I would rather be Ms but using my married name.

Incidentally, as part of my job, I have to do DBS checks for people and if you select Ms as the title, the online form will INSIST you must have a maiden name. Because, you know, Ms is only for divorced women.

[HeartsTrumpDiamonds]

I do like the German way of doing things where everyone is Frau.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

"Obviously we should just use Ms or no title at all.
People saying you have choice and that's a good thing do you think men are restricted by all being Mr?
What is there to like about being mrs? What about do you like?"

It isn't obvious to me at all, itsbetterthanabox.

I don't know if men feel restricted by having only one choice of title - but I am sure that if they do, they are perfectly capable of saying so and campaigning for a change - I don't see that as my responsibility.

I like being Mrs because I am a traditionalist - to me, it means I am married (I always thought no-one would every love me enough to want to spend their life with me, so it matters a lot to me. It also goes with changing my name to dh's surname - something I did because it mattered to me to show we were a unit, and because I hated my maiden name - it was used as the basis if the nickname that was used to bully me throughout secondary school - leaving me with a life long legacy of depression. So changing my name and title was part of moving away from that sad, bullied identity.

I did something similar when I went to university, as a mature student. I had kept the long form of my first name throughout my nurse training and the three years I worked as a nurse after qualifying, because there was another girl in my set with the same first name - she had always been shortened, and I never had been, so it seemed sensible that she kept her shortened form and I was not shortened, instead of having two of us with the same name.

When I went to university, I chose to use the shortened form, as a way of making a fresh start. I see becoming Mrs Dh's-surname as something similar.

I would deeply resent it if my choice of title was taken away from me - especially if it was because my choice was seen as being inferior, or because other people thought they had the right to impose their choice on me.

[DraaaamaghAlpacaaaagh]

SDTG your post just about sums up my feelings too. I took DH's surname for similar reasons to yours, and I dropped my first name when I emigrated. I've always been known by my middle name anyway, but it gave me a sense of freedom to lose my first name and my original surname with all its unhappy associations.

For me, feminism is all about having a choice in what I do, and I would also deeply resent it if I no longer had those choices.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

Feminism is not about choice.

[Smashingpumpkinofcourse]

Completely agree with getting rid of titles. It's a load of old rubbish. Maybe keep Dr.

[itsbetterthanabox]

You are married whether you use mrs or not. It doesn't mean you are married. You are still married if you are a married Ms.
If you didn't like your surname so much (which conveniently sooo many women do but men don't, shocking) then why did you wait until you met a bloke to change it? Why not do something assertive and change it by deed poll for yourself?
Married couples that don't name change to the mans name are no less of a solid unit, it is offensive to suggest otherwise.
The positives of using Ms over women being separated by their marital status are that we are seen societally as people in our own right who's worth isn't based on which man likes us. That's much more important than tradition.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Yes, would like one title for all adult women. Mrs, ms, whichever, but just the one to show you're a grown up. Like mr.

[BeCool]

I like the European way, i.e. Frauline and Senorita for girls, young women, and then Frau, Senora for grown women. Marriage has nothing to do with it.

I used to be Ms, but I felt like I could never say it properly. So now I channel Miss Elizabeth Taylor, Miss Sophia Loren etc and I am a Miss.

I have no intention to marry, so don't know if I would use Mrs - it certainly would grate. I wouldn't change my name if I did marry.

[grimbletart]

I see no one chose to answer my question, which was to those who say they are proud to be married and be Mrs. Why is being married something to be proud of? It's just a fact. And if so do they not think their husbands should be equally proud to be married to them and should have a title that shows their marital status? Talk about double standards.

I am married and use Mrs by the way most of the time but really don't understand why a woman should be proud to flaunt her status while seemingly not particularly wanting her husband to be proud and flaunt his status.

[SirChenjin]

Actually - the Frau/Fraulein thing is not correct. The German feminists believed Fraulein to be patronising years back, and iirc it was banned at one point. I'm not sure I like the idea that women are defined by age with diminutives.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Saying feminism is not about choice sounds quite dictatorial, to me - as if there is only ONE way to be a woman.

Surely there are lots of choices women have to make - education, job, relationships, children, being a WOHP or SAHP - the list is huge. And there can't be only ONE right choice in each of these areas, so surely feminism has to be about each woman being able to make the choice that is best for her? How does this fit with feminism not being about choice?

[ElephantsNeverForgive]

I hate Ms, it's a miserable hissy sound. I can't say it and sound nice.

However, the older I get and the nearer my DDs get to adulthood the less I want them defined by their gender and marital status. I want them just to be able to simply be known by their names.

I also find myself getting irritated by forms that say male or female, when it's totally irrelevant.

[Hakluyt]

Feminism is not about choice- because it is possible to make choices which are profoundly anti feminist. Just because a woman makes it doesn't make a choice feminist.

Feminism is about considering how what you do affects other women. Whether it perpetuates a misogynist world view, whether it makes life more difficult for other women. Obviously you are entitled to make any choice you like- but with awareness.

[temporaryusername]

I understand that individuals may have valid and good reasons for choosing to change their name or title. I am sympathetic to that but it is a wider issue, and keeping a choice of three titles isn't an anodyne solution.

If you want to show you are married, you could write (married) after your name. That doesn't sound like a great option probably, because it would make people wonder why you are so keen to write that and would make a statement about you. The problem is that at present the titles women have to choose from also do that, ie. 'Ms' being associated with certain attitudes. If you want to argue for a system where woman are preceded by an announcement of marital status and/or personal views, you can. I don't think you can use the argument of 'don't impose your choice on me' very effectively though. Retaining the three titles is imposing your choice, and all its implications, on other women who would prefer a system that at least paid lip service to the idea of equality.

[EBearhug]

I ignore the title box on forms if I can
But so many forms don't give you the choice. Which is, as I've said, just lazy programming. And I bet the people designing and programming it have mostly been men, and never even thought about it.

(I am foreseeing an internal campaign coming up at work...)

If I were designing a form, I'd be tempted to list titles as 'Mr (married), Mr (unmarried) Mr (none of your business), Mrs, Miss, Ms' and see the reaction.
I bet it wouldn't be allowed through, though.

(I am foreseeing an internal campaign coming up at work... I don't deal with our customer forms, but I expect I can find someone who does.)


What difference does it make if someone knows whether I'm married or not? If being unmarried or married are equal, what's the issue?
It shouldn't matter. We should all be equal. But the truth is that to many people, we aren't yet. Some people do feel a married woman is better than an unmarried one.

Sexist attitudes will continue regardless of whether three are 3 choices of title for women.
That is true, and I doubt anyone is denying it; but it does remove one common, and pretty much daily way that people will judge women. They won't stop judging, but they can't make instant assumptions about you just because of preconceptions about single women, married women and divorced/lesbian/awkward feminist women (because if you're the sort of person to judge someone for the title they give, then you are more likely to be the sort of person judging the reasons why someone would choose to be Ms.)

[doobledootch]

Find the more you say it the less hissy it becomes.

I'm not particularly proud that I'm married, although I do take a lot of personal pride in our relationship, how we work together etc.

[SirChenjin]

So given that providing the options Mrs/Miss/Ms for those who wish to use them affects no other woman then this campaign is a moot point, isn't it.

[OddBoots]

Choice is always portrayed as a good thing but when the choices offered are all negative in the sense that you are judged in some way by whichever label you choose it isn't a good thing for most women.

I don't want to choose the way in which negative things will happen to me, I just want the negative things not to happen.

[mausmaus]

I would.
I wouldn't be fussed about which title though.

as it is it's bloody confusing.
the french and germans went with the 'mrs' euivalent to adress any adult female which I like a lot tbh.

[SirChenjin]

So by women removing the choice for other women you believe that will be progress, somehow?

[Hakluyt]

This choice does affect other women. It perpetuates the idea that it's important for women to be labelled as either "spoken for" or not. And,while the words don't actually indicate this, there is a cultural assumption that married women have a higher "status" than unmarried ones. Getting rid of the title would go some way towards starting to demolish these shibboleths.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

So, I can make any choice I want, as long as it is the approved choice? And a bunch of women who have never met me, know better than I do what are the right choices for me.

Riiiiiiiight.....

[SirChenjin]

Not at all. Keeping the 3 options demonstrates that women are capable of making their own free choice and decisions, without other women (ie feminists) telling them what's best for them. I also disagree that marriage is seen as having a higher status - but even if you do believe that, removing the Mrs option from an application form is not going to change perceptions.