Would you get rid of the titles "Miss" and "Mrs" and use just "Ms" if you could?

[peppaistired]

I would like to campaign somewhere about this. I don't see the point in having so many titles around for women, and only one and simple for men: "Mr"
After all, why should people or society care if we're married, or single? They don't seem to care in the case of men, why is there still an issue with women's marital status?

[SirChenjin]

Sexist attitudes will continue regardless of whether three are 3 choices of title for women. To claim otherwise is simplistic.

[DressingGownFrown]

I don't like the sound of the word Ms either.

And I am quite happy to use Miss for now and Mrs when I get married and if someone uses Ms to refer to me then fine.

I just don't see it as an issue and if others see it as a woman's rights issue then I think it would be if they better to put more time and effort into other WR issues.

Send my paycheck to whoever you like as long as its the same for everyone doing the same job as me.

[chutneypig]

I find my response differs depending on the tone of the person asking. I use my maiden name professionally, so typically Dr for that, and I usually use Mrs Married Name when relevant.

DH rarely uses his title. I think it's quite telling that he's never felt judged when asked for his title. Although, I suspect he very rarely is asked.

[DressingGownFrown]

Also, when fiance and I have discussed this he dislikes that nothing happens for him when he gets married.
If anything, yay for choice.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

Sexist attitudes will continue regardless of whether three are 3 choices of title for women. To claim otherwise is simplistic.

Changing language is, of course, not the only thing needed to change sexist attitudes, but it is very important. Language is symbol. What we call things does affect attitudes; changing language has always been an important part of social justice movements.

[ArsenicChaseScream]

It's strange how many of these words related to equality and emancipation are offensive to so mant female ears.

Women were queuing up on another thread earlier in the month to denounce vulva as a 'vile, revolting' word that cannot possibly be used or taught to children.

So called 'maiden' names are also aurally painful too, it seems (or become that way on prospect of marriage).

[MiniTheMinx]

I would get rid of all titles. They are simply there to convey social status, whether that be your marital status, gender or your social class.

[exexpat]

I use Ms, but would much prefer the gender-and-marital-status-neutral 'san' as used in Japan.

[vestandknickers]

I like using Mrs.

Ms is usually a choice for anyone who wants to use it.

I am happy for people to know my marital status. It is a big part of who I am.

[itiswhatitiswhatitis]

I would get rid of titles altogether. I am married but retain my maiden name although I hate being refered to a Miss. I hate the formailty of refering to anyone as Mr This or Miss That or Mrs Whoever and will ask people to refer to me by my first name.

It took some convincing but in my last job in a school I was able to allow children to refer to me by my first name.

[itsbetterthanabox]

Obviously we should just use Ms or no title at all.
People saying you have choice and that's a good thing do you think men are restricted by all being Mr?
What is there to like about being mrs? What about do you like?

[MaryWestmacott]

I don't like the title Ms, it's an ugly word, but more importantly, it feels so contrived, it's pointing out you don't like the Miss or Mrs choice. Rather than saying that marrital status isn't important, it looks like being asked is very important to you.

I'd much rather adopt the European attitude that all adult woman are Mrs - that would take the 'power' out of the Miss/Mrs titles, it would be 'little girl/adult woman' like Master/Mr is for men currently little boy/adult man.

Just using "Ms" would still leave "Miss and Mrs" meaning "unmarried/married", and people would still use them out of tradition - redefining them to be in line with the titles given to men/boys seem much more 'equal' than having a different naming system for woman.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

I think that some of the wedding threads (and some things I hear in real life) are a good indication that in many ways we are going backward, and that the fact of being married still remains a central societal motif in what it means to be a successful woman. There was a thread recently in which a woman wanted to get married in the same year as her sister, and many posters piled on to tell her she was being unreasonable because she would be stealing her sister's thunder, the implication being that it was some kind of big achievement.

[itiswhatitiswhatitis]

I don't understand why choice is a good thing either as it just means that our title is somehow a reflection on our identity.
Miss = Unmarried, young, spinster
Mrs = Married
Ms = Divorced, feminist

Mr = Man

[MaryWestmacott]

oh and Mrs didn't used to just mean 'Married woman' - even just looking at Downton - Mrs Patmore and Mrs Hughes (head cook and housekeeper) were called "Mrs" as they were in a high status role, not because they were married (I believe most woman who held those roles in old houses weren't married).

Mrs used to just be given to higher status/older woman, not just those who were married. Somewhere along the way, we brought it back just as a marrial status statement. the French and Germans have been far more sensible about the whole thing!

[BlueEyeshadow]

Mary Westmacott just said exactly what I was about to say, only much better. I also don't know how to pronounce Ms and see many arguments about that.

[Spadequeen]

No I wouldn't, I like being a mrs, but I like that women are able to choose ms if they want, I don't want to.

[MaryWestmacott]

Scone - to be fair on that thread, a lot of the people saying she shouldn't get married the same year as her sister were basing that not on 'thunder stealing' but more because they had family who'd have to fly in from overseas, they wouldn't make the trip twice, so if she got in first, they'd all come over for her wedding and not her sister's, who'd been planning it for a lot longer, it seemed rather more 'guest stealing' than 'thunder stealing'. She would be ruining the wedding her sister had planned if she put the weddings too close together to mean people couldn't afford to travel to both (which if they held them a year or more apart they would do).

[MaryWestmacott]

itiswhatitis - you've missed the title "Master" out of your list - for children, it's "Master or Miss" so for adults it should be "Mr or Mrs".

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

I would be fine with going back to the 17th century practice of using Mrs. for both. But I think that is unlikely. It is more likely that by adopting the newer Ms. universally that it will become the default usage. US practice is already evidence of this.

[temporaryusername]

It might sound on the surface as if choice must be a good thing, but the existence of the so called 'choice' has negative implications for all women.
There is as a PP said no neutral choice. It almost makes 'Ms' worse it announces a choice to reject both the others. Someone up thread said they associate it with man haters or cat ladies . What male choice is so judgement-laden?

I agree with Mary Westmacott too.

Sexist attitudes will go on but we don't have to let them remain official.

Those who like their title to reflect their married status...I'd be genuinely interested to know how you feel about the fact that your husband's does not. Do you think there should be a change to give men three option? There certainly doesn't seem to be much pressure from men to do so.

[itiswhatitiswhatitis]

true mary but i think it's a little more fuzzy as to when the master bit gets dropped or if used at all. It has a tendancy to only be used in formal documents I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer allowed to a young male as Master xx

[itiswhatitiswhatitis]

out loud

[MaryWestmacott]

itiswhatitis - true, but that's the level of Miss for little girls - people use Master for boys when they would use Miss for little girls - on formal documents etc. The choice for males are therefore "child/adult" for woman "child/adult unmarried/adult married/adult divorced or doesn't want to say for political reasons". I think "Child/adult" for woman would be much neater and would take the politics out of the words Miss and Mrs.