How much time and money do you think goes in to being a woman?

[FuckOffFerret]

Most women I know wear make up. They get their hair dyed. They shave or wax, have their lips/eyebrows done. Now that fanjo hair has gone the way of the dodo how much do people spend on that?

The average "groomed" woman must spend a fortune and hours of their week to look the way they do :( It's depressing how much of our lives (and out money) is just going down the pan to be seen as acceptable.

It's an interesting one.

I think the largest pressure is when you're a teen probably? On whatever happens to be the fashion at the time.

And then maybe again as we get older - depending on what "tribe" you are in probably as well as to what the "norm" is and therefore what the range is of bothering less/ more than average for your group but still to an "acceptable" level which TBH is where most people feel comfortable.

One thing I would say is that someone flagged (famous quote?) that the biggest step forward for women in the workplace had been the invention of decent affordable hair dye. And I have to say, I think there's probably something in that, sadly.

Anyway. IME, work can be a big driver. In the area I work the standard of grooming can be remarkably high. People in my circle (people like me IYKWIM) are succumbing to the lure of botox. Not the men (yet!) as far as I can see.

Generally I look around and the different in grooming levels between men and women is frankly astronomical. Women have more freedom - yes. But it seems to come at quite a price.

And the bit I am sure people will argue with walking around my workplace and going out ay lunch and wandering about it becomes very clear that in this one area the idea that women expected to be "decorative" in a way that men just aren't is, on average, very apparent. Interestingly, on dress down days, men and women basically wear the same with more or less everyone in comfortable jeans and top combo, flat shoes, and some of the men & women dressed up a bit more revealingly, and a similar number dressed less revealingly. I find that extremely interesting! Beacuse it shows up that the rest of the week it's a "uniform" or standard effectively with men's being smart and covered up and women's being more revealing and decorative. Thinking about it, it's the same with "formal" wear generally isn't it. Dinner suits vs evening dresses, the difference on the red carpet etc.

buggers YES tights you might as well just paint your legs with creosote and chuck your money straight in the bin it'd probably make for an easier and less frustrating time of it.

IME both men and women can get away with the level of grooming they choose, until they get to a point in careers where they are trying to break into management or similar levels of 'establishment' careers.

At lower grades, basic adherence to dress codes and cleanliness is fine. Suddenly if you want to be seen as suitable for promotion you need perfectly-fitting suits, recently-cut hair, smart shoes, and attention paid to your face. Which for men means a couple expensive suits, two pairs of shoes to alternate and get 're-heeled regularly and polished, six-weekly haircuts and a bit of moisturiser in the mornings.
For women it's at least all that, but it's a lot harder to find a perfect suit that fits, tops ditto and they don't last nearly as long as men's ones, women's shoes don't last nearly as long, tights are practically disposable compared to socks, and women will be expected to have at least some jewellery and token makeup and most will go for more than a trim at the hairdresser. Given women change size and shape a lot more than men, it's all a lot harder. I really noticed this when going for interviews on maternity leave and having a nightmare just trying to find something presentable to wear, before I could concentrate on the role and plan answers.

It's also an ablism issue - if you can't do up buttons or hold a hairdryer or apply eye makeup, it's very hard to look the part for such jobs.

I think there's ever-increasing pressure on men about looks too - about 5 years after women's pyjamas disappeared to be replaced in shops by bottoms and little sexy T-shirts, the same has now happened to men's, and marketing is trying to pressure them too. The amount of artifice young women apply now has got to a point where fashion has got to swing against it soon, probably helped by economic necessity, just like when hippies, punks and grunge all became fashionable in rejection of the careful gendered styling that was the previous fashion.

I think there's already a backlash amongst the young. In London, the main difference (apart from age, obviously) I see between women my age and women in their 20s is how much more casually and comfortably younger women dress. Okay, on a night out women might wear ridiculous heels and in many workplaces they might make more of an effort to look smart, but when I work in offices (media) the women mostly wear jeans, T-shirts of various kinds and flat shoes, not unlike the men. Possibly it's also that a higher number of the young women one sees around are students or otherwise not working.

Young women certainly spend money on their hair and make-up, but in a much more dressed-down way - the whole tousled, beachy look seems to be everywhere, and sportswear is still very much a trend.

I expect there's an element of being able to "get away with it", but it's fashion-driven too.

I wonder if this question would have had different responses if it had been posted in S&B?

Not sayin that feminists don't care about their appearance but...

If this had been in S&B the answers would have quickly equated a lack of top level grooming with being smelly, grubby and unwashed. It happens every time.. many women seem to find it hard to imagine how a woman can be clean and have their hair brushed and be neat and professional without makeup, plucked eyebrows, painted fingernails or blow-dried and straightened hair.

There have been several thread about makeup and a huge amount of women have said they "feel naked" if they leave the house with out makeup. How anyone can pretend that doesn't come from gender expectations is beyond me. Makeup free selfies, anyone? Remember those? People equating putting a picture of themselves without makeup to having cancer.

Personally I always wear make up as I look pale and tired without it. I enjoy pretty clothes and jewellery.

However I do think this society largely values women for how they look and it's hard to not buy into that. I also think it's worse for young women now, fake tans, eyelashes, hair etc. there seems to be a hyper feminine aesthetic prevalent at the moment ( is this just another form of female oppression? Sometimes it feels like it is)

If you have a vagina you are a woman. The point I was making in my OP (and I'm pretty sure you understood it- but hey)was that society expects a certain level of grooming for woman to be seen as "acceptable" that it does not expect of men.

The title of the post is 'How much time and money goes into being a woman?'
And I responded, honestly, that I am a woman regardless, and any time or money spent on grooming, fashion and make up is a personal choice. I like nice clothes, nail varnish, jewellery and shaped eyebrows.

I am absolutely a feminist. I find the Harrod's dress code for women abhorrent (and surely unlawful?)
I shouldn't have to defend the time and money I spend on anything.

I agree with a pp who talked about 'tribes' rather than gender being the main influence. Politics, dress, beliefs etc are ime more directly related to social groups than gender.

I'm quite amazed at the numbers of women on MN who seem to use Botox. I always though it was a weird fringe thing that rich weirdos did. I cannot imagine ever thinking, hmm, I look like a 43 year old woman, I know! I'll inject my face with deadly poison. It's completely alien to me.

I get my hair cut at the local college, they need the models and it's about £10 for a decent cut.

I get moisturiser prescribed and I only use products which aren't tested on animals.

So I spend about £150 a year on myself. Unless there's a really good Marvel t shirt on sale, then I spend a bit more.

I am a relatively successful professional woman. The pressure I feel to look the part is enormous. I was thinking about it this weekend. I spend several hours and a fair amount of money getting my nails done, waxing and a hair cut. I get my nails done every other week (with gel), get waxing done at the same time. Hair cut every six weeks, colour about three times a year. I have to programme it into my weekends. And if I am honest I do it because I have to look the part at work. The hilarious thing is that my brilliant DH who happily takes more than his fair share with the children to free up time for me to do this kind of thing tells me to 'have fun' as I trot off to have bits of hair ripped off me.

I know I could decide not to do this. But it would impact the impression I give at work and sadly appearance still matters for women hoping to reach the top. My master plan is to play the game until I make it to a position where I can influence things and then see what I can do to make it easier for those following behind.

Oh and add to the above the many hours a week I spend in the gym and the cost of that too.

• haircuts twice a year (should be more, I look a bit cousin It like). £35 a time.
• make up, minimal, £60 a year (tinted moisturiser, with blusher and lipstick replaced very two years I reckon)
• shaving before bare-legged events, so so as to socially conform. Perfectly happy to go hairy legged otherwise.
• under-arm shaving every 1-2 weeks, again just to socially conform and because my DH prefers it (that said, he does things like use moisturiser that I have asked him to do, which he doesn't feel necessary. So give and take)
• bikini line etc - er no, fuck off, the only time any hair has been removed down there in bulk was when I had my c-section
• clothes. Weak point. I only shop properly 2-4 times a year in the sales and sample sales, but I spend a lot on a few nice quality clothes and coats, maybe £600 a year. They last, unless I've grown (sideways) out of then. I wear a lot of clothing that I bought up to 5 years ago. Not a big fan of bag and shoe shopping, which cuts down expenditure.
• I think I'm pretty low maintenance though, no hairdrying, very little or no make up, although the downside is that I look low maintenance too!

I have two teen DDs and Just the budget for things like razors, hair remover cream, gallons of shampoo and conditioner mounts up. Before you start on make up and clothes.

These are sensible kids, they don't plaster on make up or want silly amounts of clothes or shoes, but there is still a background budget to being a girl.

This budget starts very young. Right from the first day of infants small girls wear tights and school shoes which are not as robust as boys trousers and shoes.

Senior school girls wear thin tights, which last no time at all. Especially for Y7s who haven't learnt how to put them on quickly, but carefully FFS no man would think putting on tights was a useful life skill

The coment above about women being more modest on dress down days struck a real cord.

Today DD2(13) will have gone into school with her skirt folded up twice and way shorter than regulation and DD1 in a cardigan she never does up, fitted blouse and tie, that draws attention to her shape.

Call non uniform and both will be in jeans, trainers and a hoodie. So will all the other girls!

I think for most women who project a similar appearance to me it's probably less than you'd expect. I have bikini waxing every few months at £20-£40, depending on the provider. I have my hair cut every few months as well, it's £39. I colour my own hair with a very cheap product which lasts about 6 months for under £5. I do my own gel nails, the set up kit cost me about £35 on the Internet but has lasted over a year so far with two-weekly maintenance. That takes time to remove and redo and I do occasionally buy a new colour for £5 but the top and base coat are still going as are the UV bulbs. I've got an epilator I've had for over 10 years which is still going strong so that costs nothing bar a bit of electricity. I attack my lower legs with that occasionally in order to keep stubble to a minimum, once a month? Otherwise I'll run a razor over them in the shower if I want a quick result. I shave my underarms every other day but just with shower gel, nothing fancy. I do moisturise all over every day after a shower but not with anything very expensive and that's as much to do with my dry skin as appearance. Razors are expensive, I make mine last a few weeks and buy toiletries on offer but it's got to be £25 a month all-in.

I spend very little on make-up but that's because it seems to last forever and when I do buy I always get those free gifts full of samples as well which keep going for ages. I don't wear a whole lot but I do wear something most days because I enjoy playing with it and the effects I can achieve. I probably spend about £60 a year?

Sports kit is a huge expense for me and one that is very definitely appearance-driven, I would certainly skip it if I wasn't probe to porkiness! Trainers and sports bra alone are expensive and need replacing often, let alone the rest of the kit. This is the cost I really resent, give me a Brazillian wax any day over running around the park! Running shoes £40 in a sale, replaced 3 times a year. Sports bras similar. In truth I wouldn't have bought the Bluetooth earpiece if it wasn't for exercise do we could add that in. Miscellaneous clothes, that's probably about £300 a year.

So about £400 a year on beauty although that includes soap and deodorant which even your most low maintenance man would have to buy. The hundreds a year on sports equipment are what I resent as I glean no enjoyment from that whatsoever! The hair, nails, beauty at least give me some hot as I appreciate the results and I enjoy playing with colours. I suppose they also give me confidence and allow me to blend in with my social set.

Joy! Not hot!

I think this might be at least semi-intelligent but I'm very tired so it might not be.

To pick up on Chibi's comment, yes it is all cultural. I saw an interesting article about how women's clothing in Iran and how that had changed -now it's all those hijabs because of the islamic revolution but just 50 years ago it looked totally different and that was perfectly acceptable. This osn't it but looks similar, its really striking www.pagef30.com/2009/04/iran-in-1970s-before-islamic-revolution.html damn i've forgotten my point. Oh well. That's interesting anyway.

Oh yes, it was somethig about how the whole idea of being well-dressed and maontaining and giving respect changes too. For me no make-up is perfectly respectable. For others it isn't, past and present, and I don't really understand that. Wasn't that interesting after all sorry.

In fact (sorry, will go soon) I find that make-up looks pretty awful to me tbh. I'm not used to it and many girls plastered with it just all look the same to me although they think no doubt that they're expressing their individuality. Not to me they aren't.

I don't feel under pressure anymore, I did when I was younger. I don't do many of the things I am 'supposed' to do. I never go on diets, I never go to the hairdressers (I cut and colour my own hair spending less than 20 pounds a year on hair dye. I can't believe how much some people spend on their hair), I don't faff about with bikini lines, I don't spend much time in front of the mirror and I've never had my colours done, had a manicure or a pedicure etc.

I think I spend less than 100 pounds a year on beauty products, very, very little on clothes, I don't have a gym membership.

As far as time goes I spend 5 - 10 minutes per day putting on a bit of make-up and doing my hair. I paint my nails about every 2 or 3 months.

I still look better than most people. I feel like this because I don't spend more than 5 - 10 mintues a day looking at myself in the mirror. I am clean, well-fed and reasonably healthy, that's all that matters to me.

I feel like this because I don't spend more than 5 - 10 mintues a day looking at myself in the mirror.

Just to pick up on that point, it may seem silly, but we moved in to our place last year and there are no built in mirrors anywhere and we didn't have any ourselves. Dh bought a small mirror for shaving that I never even bother with but basically I've realised that I have been SO MUCH happier since I stopped looking in the mirror. And weirdly I do feel better about myself, I'm not seeing all the flaws and I just don't think about iit at all. DH finally went and bought a full length mirror from IKEA last month but I just avoid it now.

I gave up looking at crap magazines a couple years ago, and don't check sidebars of shame. It does make a difference!