How much time and money do you think goes in to being a woman?

[FuckOffFerret]

Most women I know wear make up. They get their hair dyed. They shave or wax, have their lips/eyebrows done. Now that fanjo hair has gone the way of the dodo how much do people spend on that?

The average "groomed" woman must spend a fortune and hours of their week to look the way they do :( It's depressing how much of our lives (and out money) is just going down the pan to be seen as acceptable.

You most definitely are morecrack.

I enjoy having my hair done, shave my legs and armpits and pluck my eyebrows

You don't enjoy shaving your legs. You don't enjoy plucking your eyebrows. Your vanity is dependent on looks because women are told to look a certain way. If you lived in a different or a place or a different time you would have different ideas and expectations about beauty.

I am not signed up to the idea that appearance is everything. In fact that idea bloody annoys me.

I don't wear make-up at all, get m dh to cut my hair 'cos I'm tight and no one pays me £20 an hour so I'm not giving it to anyone else, clothes when needed not for a hobby. Exercise, I like the idea of being fit, havn't managed it since dc were born but you can cycle to work or shops, or walk instead of drive and save money. I used to swim but not since dc. I do still keep my legs shaved since as a swimmer they were on show and I'm used to it now.

One thing that might help with advertising pressure is to turn off the tv (we watch dvds) and commercial radio.

So my costs 'fo being a woman' are the monthly sanitary needs, and now I have a mooncup even that's minimal . Any trouble from employers about appearance would be met with an investigation into what is required of the males. We do have some back-up in uk.

I enjoy the way my eyebrows look, not the physical act of plucking them.

I am a woman. I do not feel I 'become' one by means of make up, or hair, or fashion.
I simply enjoy it. As I would if I was a man. My gender has no bearing on my interests.

Actually Idealist employers can make employees wear makeup/heels etc. Harrods do it and a few others that I can think of .

harrods
The two-page "ladies" dress code stipulates: "Full makeup at all time: base, blusher, full eyes (not too heavy), lipstick, lip liner and gloss are worn at all time and maintained discreetly (please take into account the store display lighting which has a 'washing out' effect)."

Why do people think so many more women have eating disorders than men if there is no pressure for women to attain certain beauty standards?

Then don't work for those employers. No way would I be an air hostess! Not many others do.

Ok morecrack. You enjoy the way your eye brows look. And the idea they should look a certain way came entirely from you in the vacuum of a world that you live in. I'm sure if you were raised in a tribe in Africa that hadn't been touched by the outside world you would be the one person there who decided to pluck your eye brows in the exact same way you do now.

I didn't think it would stand up to a serious challenge though I have to admit.

I can't see how it can possibly not be seen as acceptable but it seems to have been allowed.

Ignore the "not"

Is this more about 'tribe' than gender? Your 'uniform' - the clothes you choose, the way you do or don't style your hair, hat, shoes, bag - are all signals to others that indicate your beliefs/ethics (see Irving Goffman)

It is depressing, and as I get older it gets more depressing. However, it's pretty much engrained now. I don't watch TV (okay, apart from GBBO) so I can't blame that.

Bit of a sideline, but does anybody remember the Ally McBeal show? There was a bit where one of the partners (the one who liked "waddle") was complaining to his girlfriend (Lucy Liu?) about how you know when a relationship has lost its magic: "when your girlfriend shaves her legs in the morning".

As opposed to doing it both morning and evening.

I was irked a lot that somebody could have this as a standard, and absolutely livid that he could be spouting it as a benchmark (that everybody knows) for how all relationships are. Who TF writes this stuff?!?

Rant over. Aaannnd breathe.

Everything about me, my politics, my taste in music, my religious beliefs, the way I behave professionally, has been shaped by my environment and the people in it. Of course I don't live in a vacuum.
Regardless of my sex I live my life how I choose to. Of course I am influenced by various factors.
The question in the OP was how much time and money do women spend to 'become' a woman.
My honest, personal answer is none. I am a woman in any state of being.

My honest, personal answer is none. I am a woman in any state of being.

If you have a vagina you are a woman. The point I was making in my OP (and I'm pretty sure you understood it- but hey)was that society expects a certain level of grooming for woman to be seen as "acceptable" that it does not expect of men.

Everything about me, my politics, my taste in music, my religious beliefs, the way I behave professionally, has been shaped by my environment and the people in it. Of course I don't live in a vacuum.

So then how can you say gender expectations have nothing to do with your grooming routines?

I guess quite a lot, but then the average office based (so has to be relatively 'groomed') man puts in quite a bit of time and money. IME, most men need to have monthly haircuts, shave daily, spend money on clothes (and also IME, it's harder for men to look smart in cheap clothes, while men tend to have fewer clothes and follow fashions less, mens suits, shirts and shoes aren't cheap). Increasingly, men wax chests, are expected to control hairy eyebrows, use moisturisers.

Pedant - I guess a hairy person writes it, my legs would still be smooth the day after shaving, so definately would be by the evening! Although I didn't take that comment that you were supposed to do it twice a day, more that you know your relationship is in trouble when the 'effort' is for the outside world, not for your DP.

I can't work out how anyone can have the time to do all these things!

I personally don't spend much time/money on beauty stuff. I get my hair done a few times a year so maybe £100 per year on my hair (dp spends £0 on his hair as we bought cheap clippers years ago and he does his own in about 10mins). I don't wear make up or much jewellery, I occasionally shave my armpits because I can't bring myself to go swimming with hairy pits.

I teach secondary and my form are all 15. Out of 15 girls I'd say 13 of them spent at least 15mins(some will have spent a lot longer) on their hair this morning, maybe 3 of the 15 boys spent the same time on theirs. At least 10 of the girls wore make up today, at least another 5mins for the "natural" look, more for the more fully made up. None of the boys spent time putting make up on. So that's at least 20 mins that the majority of the girls are spending on their appearance that the majority of the boys are not. And that's before I even get onto the girls with their nails done, or spray tans, or dyed hair, or shaved arms.

Honestly next to none. I used to to used to be groomed and waxed and dyed and yes I think I did look like what society expects a woman to look like I guess.
Now as I say Next to none. I shave my armpits, for comfort, my dd cuts my hair, I don't buy new clothes unless there needed (have always hated shopping )
I nearly died in a car crash, I'm have more scars than clear skin. I was offered cosmetic surgery especially on my face. I refused it and lost somewhere my desire to look a certain way. I think it was for my eldest dd, I didn't want her to think it mattered, that she had to look a certain way. She's now 17 and though enjoys having her hair cut and making her own clothes, it's a form of self expression not conformity. Which I guess my attitude is too.
And I've waffled on there...sorry.

i go back and forth on this.

i don't feel that any time/money spent on grooming reduces the quality of my existence

there are some things i do and would not give up except under extreme circumstances, and others, like wearing makeup that i do very rarely (less than 5x a year if that). it is interesting to me that i perceive some of my grooming as non negotiable (eyebrows) and others (makeup, manicure) as things i don't care about.

i wonder why it is so, they are each as time consuming , and as necessary as each other - that is, not at all :)

having said that, if i didn't spend the money or time on my few grooming necessities, what would i spend them on instead? and why is that desirable?

Once you get into the realms of spray tans, nails (false or regular manicures) and salon waxing, the costs can really go up (not to mention the time).

I earn a bloody good wage and I remember being shocked that we had a school-leavers in the office who had regular shellac, fake tan 24/7, salon dye job, manicured scouse brows. I knew their starting salaries and just couldn't get my head around how much that must all cost when I also knew at least one was saving for a deposit for a flat, but probably spending £50 a week on 'beauty'.

Having said that, I am fairly low maintenance (most of the time) and it can still add up (6 weekly eyebrows and lashes, 12 weekly haircut, make-up even though I don't often wear it for work, because it's still a 'requirement' for occasions, nights out and important meetings).

I don't count my sport stuff, albeit that's because I have a sport I enjoy doing. If I was purely doing it for aesthetics it would be in there.

Oh and can I add bloody, bastarding tights to the list? Anything less than 40 denier is practically a tax on leg-baring at the rate I (literally) go through them, but very much expected in my place of work

some of this is cultural too (beyond general patriarchal culture, i mean)

my grandparents were italian, and i remember my grandfather particularly as someone for whom looking one's best was non-negotiable, a mark of self respect but also respect for everyone you would encounter

Lots of women have bought into the idea that grooming and shopping are a hobby.
I and many others I know do not.
I am not a radical, I do feel the need to run a razor over my legs and armpits once a week and I shove a lick of mascara and lip gloss on for smart occasions. But I have my hair cut less often than my dh (though it costs more) and probably don't spend more than any professional man on clothes (I have more clothes but each outfit is cheaper than a suit).
So yes, there is pressure for some things (eg hair removal) but I don't think that there is a general expectation of spending loads except in some social circles (not mine).

I am aware that I spend far more time than most men getting ready in the morning - an much of that is on grooming more than anything else. Makeup, blow drying hair, moisturize all over, are probably the main things that take up time that I could be sleeping for an extra 1/2 hr.

Recently, I have found that the new job I am in values my 'maturity' - ie I appear older than my female colleagues who are all late 20's, early 30's, and I have just started to go grey. I was going to start dying the grey bits, but have decided not to, and am relieved quite frankly. I am determined to age gracefully, without botox and other cosmetic interventions.