Egalitarianism or feminism - what's the difference? And does it matter?

[Monkeytrousers101]

Many women, especially young women, don't identify as feminists today but as egalitarians. They believe in equality of the sexes and human rights. So does the distinction matter?

You're an egalitarian, an evolutionary anthropologist, not a feminist.

So you're here... to argue with feminists? What fun.

She wants to see if we've evolved

tunip

I'm actually an evolutionary anthropologist!

Do you mean as a student or an academic or something else?

"But in any case, I originally said 'patriarchal history'. There's plenty of evidence for that, as there is for current patriarchal societies and religions. "

Well the term "theory" doesn't really mean the same in feminism as it does elsewhere. So not a word twister at all. We are just coming at this from different perspectives.

To be clear, I mean that the feminist theory of patriarchy is not a theory, but more a popular idea.

Patriarchy is a concept in anthroppology which describes social systems
based on patrilineality and fathers as the within-household authority.

In a broad sense of patriarchy being a system of hierarchies, it also exists, but there is no evidence that hierarchies are inherently bad (as feminists claim) or that they are exclusive to humans only.

I'm somewhat empirically-minded myself, and like a good Popperian falsifiable theory as much as the next gal, and I don't think it means what you think it means (see the Princess Bride thing I did there?). Of course 'the patriarchy' isn't a theory, any more than 'the monarchy' is a theory. The theory is that, in a patriarchy, men have more power than women. We can operationalise that in a number of ways. I think money=power is a good place to start. It is demonstrable that men have more money than women, and I therefore conclude that men have more power and thus that we are living in a society which may be described as a patriarchy. Falsify that - I double dare you.

Buffy: I appear not to have taken that module. Is that a social anth staple?

"I was just wondering how far along the feminist debates had come on here. If they were more ideological or less"

how patronising

"Yes, I am discounting women's lived experiences as falsifiable evidence. It's evidence but anecdotal."

Ha ha ha ha.

Chunky: I am a woman who talks to lots of women. Not by a long way have most of them told me they have been groped or worse. Some have - I have - but most? No.

It's not discountable no. But it isn't evidence (other than hearsay) either.

so you woke up today and thought "i know, i'll pop along to MN FWR and see whether they are discussing things in a way that i find acceptable or not"

Sabrinnnnnnnna: No I'm not here to argue. I'm here to ask a question and get diverse answers. I'm getting them :)

schoolclosed I think I may be a little in love with you!

Goodness. It's like trying to converse with Humpty Dumpty - take a word and define it to mean what you want. Or replace a word someone did use with one they didn't and then work from there.

'patriarchal history' - women not having property rights. women not having votes. women having inferior educational opportunities. etc etc etc. Documentary evidence in spades.

it isn't evidence (other than hearsay)

oops, you're getting some evidential concepts mixed up. Women talking of their own experiences is not hearsay.

Lurcio you've made me

Okay, so in answer to the two questions;

Egalitarianism or feminism - what's the difference? Equality isn't the goal (or an idea of equality that people seem happy with). The goal is to dismantle the underlying social structures - namely patriarchy.

Does it matter? Yes.

"Falsify that - I double dare you."

so no one here gets the prize?

Yes it matters.

Thanks girls ;)

Buffy - and that is why I love how many academics there are on here... I knew all that, but I couldn't summarise it anywhere near as elegantly.