On the back of Emma Watson's speech and #he4she

[DoctorTwo]

Iceland announce a UN conference on feminism. For men only. I'm utterly at a loss as to why.

We really, really need an eyeroll smiley.

And the spokesman says it's a 'barbershop' conference. What does that mean? They're going to sing? Am I losing something in translation.

Perhaps Iceland could also announce a groundbreaking UN conference on racism to which only white people are invited.

Buffy :D

I meant facepalm. Or WTF.

Oh men are meeting
You think there's nothing finer
But you are excluding something...
Oh, yes, it's those vaginas
It's no god's gift to women
That's all in your head
This is just a man gang (so often it's a man gang)
Do something else instead...

(Apologies to the writers of The One With All The Jealousy)

Iceland are no 1 in the world in terms of sex equality aren't they?

So on that basis I'd be interested to hear the thinking behind it from the people who have announced it.

Um ok. Like seven said I'd be very interested to hear the thought process, goals and programme

This sounds utterly bizarre.

I'm also interested in the thought processes behind this because on the face of it it makes no sense whatsoever.

Is it a boot camp?

Actually, does anyone know if you could get ethical clearance for a Stamford prison experiment type thing with men and women role reversing? Probably not for the raping, of course, but could you use the threat of rape?

Just musing...

This is obviously what he for she must mean? If you want to engage men more surely the discussion needs to be what areas can we agree on at the start and where are there gaps. Assuming that existing stated goals by Iceland's feminists are known then the discussion is about what do men need to help them understand and engage. Still in a country with a tiny population the discussion should be relatively easy.

I guess maybe they thought: conferences on gender equality are normally attended by women. We need to do something extreme to encourage men to attend, to actually take this issue seriously. In addition to violence against women - specifically I think how to stop perpetuating attitudes about that violence among men - there's also an opportunity to look at how men make it more acceptable for men to balance work and family life, for example. I would hope they see a one-off men-only event as a way of quickly gathering momentum for greater male participation in the drive for gender equality.

Still bloody odd, though.

Isn't it restricted to male leaders not men only?

Isn't that 90 odd percent of the UN anyway?

i totally agree it sounds troubling

there are ways that it could be designed that would be less troubling though, e.g. if the focus is on highlighting to these male leaders how men as a class are oppressing women as a class, in a consciousness-raising and self-reflecting way. if there are women speakers (if not delegates) too. so not in a men leading the way and calling the shots way, but in a men being asked to reflect on some uncomfortable truths about how they personally and as a class are contributing to the oppression of women

i don't have high hopes for that though

yes. it won't be like that though

the real problem is billing it as feminist isn't it? no feminist is going to object to these problems being discussed and tackled, and most will actively support the notion, but not under the banner of feminism which still has plenty to be getting on with in terms of women's liberation

This is why men can't really be feminists though isn't it? We don't have to live with being 2nd class, we don't experience sexism, we struggle to empathise with women, their position and the massive reversals that are required by society.

So, if this conference does turn out like Buffy suggests, yes, it will be shit. However, if (and I admit it is a bloody big if) it does enable men to talk about this stuff without the usual hang ups, preconceptions then it may be a "good thing".

One thing is for sure, equality/feminism etc. isn't currently being taken seriously by most male leaders (or men for that matter) so it is time to try other approaches, whatever they may be.

Haha Yonic !!!!!!! Love the barbershop humour

Fair enough, Buffy. I'm listening, and I've listened to others who have differing opinions.

My understanding of Feminsim is that it is much greater than "Listen To Women", it's about breaking down all the barriers to equality, dissolving the patriarchy etc.

To use a standard comparison, I don't doubt that there were white-only conferences when Apartheid was being removed in South Africa.

I take your point though, and I worry about the exact remit and agenda of such conferences even if I don't disagree with them on principle.