Brooks Newmark "Entrapment"

[FloraFox]

There doesn't seem to be any suggestion "she" asked him to send her the photo, is there?

So simply being an attractive young woman and complimenting national politicians on twitter is "entrapping" men into sending photos of their genitals?

Sorry Empire that's not much help. Entrapment itself is not unethical. The police (and journalists) use it all the time. The precise methods may be unethical and the balance with public interest is also relevant. In this situation there has been a rush to defend the privacy rights of men who engage in sexual behaviour with young women online (and offline). There has also been a rush to criticise the specific method of this sting operation even though not all the facts have been presented. The wider impact on women (and especially young women who might, as Buffy suggested, want to contact older men for networking) has barely had a mention. I see a clear public interest and feminist issue in ensuring that men holding gatekeeping positions for power or public office do not sexually exploit the young women who need to come into contact with them. It is essential if women are able to advance in the workplace and politics. For that reason, I expect I balance the competing interests differently than you, certainly I balance them differently than the mainstream patriarchal press.

Newmark also has the power to make all the facts available and has not done so. Where does that leave your theory?

Do you have experience of police practice in sting operations? I wouldn't agree with your statements.

Buffy what you describe happens all the time in sexual harassment situations in the workplace. The woman joins in the banter then feels uncomfortable but by then it's a case of "well, what did you expect?" In order to be considered credible, women's conduct must be beyond reproach. Even though there is not a real woman who was involved with this man, the response sends a clear message to women that it is their responsibility to be "innocent" to avoid receiving penis photographs.

Empire you seem determined to construe every aspect of this story in BN's favour. This isn't a criminal investigation, he won't go to jail at the end of it. We hold our politicians to higher standards than that (or we should anyway).

If a politician is actively involved in encouraging young women to participate in politics and he has a reputation for engaging in sexual conduct with young women participating in politics, do you not think that needs to be exposed?

If "Method A" requires the journalist to follow steps X, Y and Z and it doesn't work, what then? Just give up and allow him to continue as he was?

The importance of the issue is relevant to the steps which should be taken. The problem here is that most media commentators (and you apparently) don't think it is an important issue or at least not compared with his right to continue to engage in sexual relationships in the course of his office.

Yes Buffy it's very difficult at the best of times to navigate older male colleagues, especially in male dominated industries. No man in their right mind is going to go straight to the c0ck sh0t at the first approach which puts the woman in the position of having to rebuff the first very slightly flirty approach and risk offending him because (perhaps) he didn't mean anything much by it or didn't mean to take it further. Woman as gate-keepers of men's sexual entitlement (again).

We know women don't go public because of Rennard etc. and look what happens to them when they do. When women can't afford to come forward and make complaints (as BN must have known would be the case in thi situation) stings like this are necessary to expose the unacceptable behaviour.

Are you saying Flora that it is his ethical duty, given his position, to turn down any form of sexual contact from young women in politics, even if quite clearly and deliberately initiated by them?

Buffy yes and certainly while his remit includes increasing the participation of young women in politics. It's hardly a big ask, is it?

Buffy I appreciate your reasonableness (rebooted) as usual but I don't think it is a communication issue. I think it's an issue of where you place the balance of interests in determining whether the conduct of the journalist justified the outcome or whether it somehow diminished the wrongness of the conduct of BN. These things are on a balance, the presence of "wrong" behaviour on one side does not diminish the "wrong" behaviour on the other side.

I long for the day when it isn't considered a reasonable excuse that a man was driven out of his mind and his character by the actions of a temptress

Me too. What pisses me off about the media outcry is the male entitlement behind it. It is unthinkable that, given the slightest invitation, a man should not be able to take whatever he thinks is "offered" to him. And if he goes a little too far (and what's a c0ck sh0t or two after all) it's a little embarrassing but not the end of the world. A journalist testing to see how far he will go on the other hand - despicable! unthinkable!

We do not have sufficient evidence that he was exploitative or that he has harassed anyone. As I said, when we have that evidence I'll happily say that he's a total wrong 'un.

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