Thinking out loud about nail varnish...

[StevesBollockAnalogy]

Okay so I suppose this is more for my benefit than anyone else's, but I'd be interested to hear what other people have to say and what your opinions are!

So when I heard about the nail varnish that detects the date rape drugs I was angry, but couldn't express why. I have since thought about it quite a lot and this is the conclusion that I've come to.

Even if we only consider rape cases in which the victim is in a night club, approached by a strange man etc. (which are by far not the norm and in the vast majority of rape cases special nail varnish or anything else would be no help at all) and a date rape drug is used, it doesn't prevent rape. That rapist does not go into a bar looking for a specific woman, he will rape whoever he decides to. If she wore a different dress, if she stayed at home, if she was fatter or thinner, if she had a different colour hair, if she detected date rape drugs in her drink, someone would still have been raped. He wouldn't think "oh well, she was the only one I was prepared to attack and rape, now she's detected my drugs I guess I'll just go home then".The nail varnish does not prevent rape, and to say it does is dangerous and misleading.

So say, a woman detects a date rape drug in her drink. She gets the hell out of there. The rapist would not give up and go home at this point, he'd find someone else. Someone who doesn't have that nail varnish. By not being "too drunk", or wearing "slutty" clothing, or wearing the special nail varnish, or going home earlier, you don't prevent rape. You sway the odds so it is less likely he will pick you, he is more likely to pick a faceless other girl. Who drank more or wore a shorter skirt or didn't buy the nail varnish and didn't 'protect' herself like you did. As long as you protect yourself, he will most likely choose someone else who didn't protect herself like you. Some who deserved it more than you. And we all know that leads straight to victim blaming and a whole host of disgusting stuff.

Does that explain it clearly why I'm angry? Am I right- or am I wrong? Other opinions and thoughts are welcome, this is just the conclusion I came to.

Ready

There are very very few rapes that come about because of being drugged in a spiked drink. It's like inventing a headscarf that protects the elderly from people throwing books at their heads and saying, "yay, we care about old people, old people can protect themselves with our product," whilst ignoring the fact that vanishingly few assaults on old people come from books being thrown at their heads.

Ready - the idea of itself is not the problem.

It's the thinking behind it that it the onus is on women to protect themselves and that men wanting to rape them is 'normal'. It perpetuates the idea that by behaving in a certain way the victim was 'asking for it', shifting blame onto the victim and excusing the rapist/abuser's (criminal) behaviour.

Oh yay, anti rape lipgloss from 2009.

Except it's not the lipgloss - it's the tester sticks that come free with the lipgloss!!

Interestingly dissonant position between the "poor women" in this Mail article and the "boozy women" in my previous link.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220848/The-anti-rape-lipgloss-helps-protect-women-drink-spiking.html

It's a horrible idea, because it's yet another way of forcing women to be hypervigilant against stranger rape when it's far more common for acquaintances to coerce women into sex.
It encourages attitudes where men say 'oh I'll walk you home' and leave women vulnerable to one actual man as opposed to nebulous imaginary unlikely ones.
So I don't find it revolting to criticise it.

What I do find revolting is the idea someone would actually put their finger in their drink in a public place - do people genuinely do this?
How can that be hygienic?

Ready..... The world which tells women that they have to prevent themselves being raped is the world in which it's ok to discuss inventions which are designed to do that. When we know from the statistics that the only way to prevent rape is to either, stop men raping women or never spend time with men again.

FWIW - I think it's quite true that the date rape drugs are a myth. I thought I'd had my drink spiked a few years ago (and only really noticed because I was designated driver so wasn't drinking at all) - turned out it was good old fashioned ecstasy rather than any official date rape drug. So nail varnish wouldn't have helped me at all.

Ready "By that logic lets all do nothing because it's going to happen to someone anyway hmm"

Well that's the point isn't it. Women are not the ones who can do anything to prevent themselves being raped - rapists need to stop raping.

I think a better idea would be straws that detect the drug and all nightclubs, bars using these. This way you can see instantly if the drink has been drugged and don't have to remember to check.
Also this would then not be the responsibility of the victim, but the establishment.

Perhaps straws (or the future) can also check for alcohol content - going too far?

Agree with onemiddlefinger that would be a good idea.
I'm not against women being taught crime prevention; it would be naive to think its a great idea for anyone (male or female) to walk around in a drunken haze. Not necessarily because of rape but because of the (probably much more likely) danger of injury, losing property, becoming a victim of assault/theft etc. Unfortunately this is the real world and there are unscrupulous people around. I mean this in the same sense that (for instance) a visitor to Barcelona may be best advised not to look like a tourist and to safeguard their valuables.
However where is the equal investment in educating men/wider society? Where is the outrage from men at images of women as sex objects in the media? The normalisation of porn? I believe such things undermine respect for women and contribute to a hatred for women.

Trevor, as long as people are human there will be people who rape. No amount of education/imprisonment will stop some people. Unfortunately this will not change in our lifetime.

Unless someone invents a machine to predict who will do bad things or not we have what we have. And that is a small percentage of bad people who do very bad things.

Onemiddlefinger, I think that's a better idea than the nail varnish. Presumably the colour change technology is transposable to different instruments/materials.

What pisses me off is that the product is clearly available as a gender neutral, user neutral (ie bar staff or drinker) stick BUT there are still efforts to incorporate it into female focussed products like bail varnish or lip gloss.

Why?

Because only women get raped, and only women who are done up in all the trappings of femininity and on a night out with drinks.

Children, men don't get raped. Nor women who are not done up for a night out and having drinks.

It's a pretty specific situation isn't it, actually.

The subtext is, women are at high risk when they are on a night out with drinking involved, and done up in their going-out gear.

Lots of women don't even wear nail varnish. It conjures up an image of a fully groomed woman in a bar laughingly chucking down a cocktail, doesn't it. Maybe on a "girls night out".

Of course drug facilitated rapes by strangers in those situations are a very small minority of offences.

So they have focussed on a huge RAPE MYTH and cleverly found a "solution" for it which won't actually stop any rapes.

WOOHOO!!! Well done boys

That's the 'women shouldn't drink - they're putting themselves at so much risk - stop having fun, women' narrative, isn't it?
Other times women are at risk of rape according to SVU or the daily mail - jogging, walking in the park, camping alone, going on holiday.

Never at home with a violent partner. That's grand.

Ok, ready. In that case, men can all be made to stay at home until the small number of them who can't keep their cocks out of vaginas when they aren't welcome are weeded out. Because that would be the best way to stop women being raped. I mean, if we're serious about stopping rape of course, and not just serious about making women responsible for it.

And yes, I know, NAMALT. But enough are, and for safety's sake, they should all be responsible.

Saying that nail varnish will help stop men raping and that's it's a good idea makes it sound like men just can't help themselves. I hold men to higher standards.

In that case, men can all be made to stay at home until the small number of them who can't keep their cocks out of vaginas when they aren't welcome are weeded out. Because that would be the best way to stop women being raped. I mean, if we're serious about stopping rape of course, and not just serious about making women responsible for it

exactly this

Indigui thank you for articulating something I was trying to say in real life. Its also the idea that we all have to be hypervigilant all the time that can cause an unhealthy amount of stress. As a youngster I used to go out a lot in a town (not a city) - and felt safe because I was with people I trusted. I used to think my mum was crazy for wanting to know how I planned to get home. But I would have been at more risk then, when I could be isolated, than in a club surrounded by staff and friends. It smacks of that law where you can check for dv convictions - where if you feel the need to check, you are doubting your own your judgement, and if you don't check and discover the hard way that he's violent then you can be asked why you didn't check.
Catch 22.

I'm not saying it will stop men raping! It is another tool in the box for women who wish to use it.

Personally, I wouldn't use any of these tools, I've never even owned a rape alarm. Why? Because I've never felt at risk. When I go out with the girls we all look out for each other and make sure none of us are left on our own, we share cabs and call each other to confirm we're safe at home. And thankfully, I've never been in a relationship with someone who has the ability to do something so horrific.

Nothing will stop men raping. It's naive to think that. All we can do is look after ourselves as best we can and that is not blaming women, it's being realistic about human nature!

I'm out of this conversation as I obviously have very different views on this to most(all) of you. Incidentally, thinking I was going mad, I showed this thread to a few mates and thankfully I'm not alone.

"When I go out with the girls we all look out for each other and make sure none of us are left on our own, we share cabs and call each other to confirm we're safe at home."

What if you pull, ready?

And I mean, I suppose, the "precautions" you are taking sound extraordinarily restrictive to me, so I suppose wearing some nail varnish on top of all that is nothing really.

It's this thing isn't it where feminists are derided as being "man haters" but actually someone with ready's "normal" attitude is far more offensive. Not to mention restricting to women's freedom - it's like living under a curfew but voluntarily FGS.

I think a far better 'drink tester' would be a strip of some kind that has the reactive substance the whole way up it. A strip long enough to reach the bottom of a pint glass and maybe fold over the top of the glass. It would show at exactly what level the drink was when the drug was added. Maybe bars could have them on the counters like they do with straws so no cost to anyone to do a test on their drink. The bar would be declaring their responsibility to their patrons' safety. And also if every glass has a strip sitting in it then a rapist is going to have a tougher time finding a victim. It would also be very easy for staff to test a drink of someone who has passed out to see if they had been drugged. Would be great if bars could also something like an immediate lockdown and call to the police in the case of a drugged drink being discovered. Make it really fucking awkward and risky to be a drug rapist.

But i suppose i'm dreaming.

Ahh i see onemiddle has already suggested this with straws. Yep totally agree. Straws would be perfect.

Agree, dia, and one that's much more user neutral ie anyone could check any drink (you can hardly offer to stick your nail in the drink of the woozy looking woman on the next bar stool)

Well as long as everything's ok for you and your not mad mates Ready, then yay!

Feminists will just keep on quietly or loudly naming the problem while you all enjoy your restrictive routines to keep you 'safe'

What happens when one of you pulls? Or is being raped? Or is just too drunk to call and check in? Who calls the police?

Men could stop raping if they wanted to. Men are not genetically predisposed to rape others. Rapists choose to rape and no amount of nifty nail polish or phone calls or anything else will change that.

It's a bit off though that your 'mates' are more interested in keeping each other safe rather than working on the problem, and they think we're the mad ones........

Are there any men in your group of drinking mates, ready? Or any boyfriends who sometimes get involved in the escorting home?

Because statistically there's probably a greater risk of one of those being a rapist than of one of you falling victim to a drug rapist.

NAMALT, natch.