Thinking out loud about nail varnish...

[StevesBollockAnalogy]

Okay so I suppose this is more for my benefit than anyone else's, but I'd be interested to hear what other people have to say and what your opinions are!

So when I heard about the nail varnish that detects the date rape drugs I was angry, but couldn't express why. I have since thought about it quite a lot and this is the conclusion that I've come to.

Even if we only consider rape cases in which the victim is in a night club, approached by a strange man etc. (which are by far not the norm and in the vast majority of rape cases special nail varnish or anything else would be no help at all) and a date rape drug is used, it doesn't prevent rape. That rapist does not go into a bar looking for a specific woman, he will rape whoever he decides to. If she wore a different dress, if she stayed at home, if she was fatter or thinner, if she had a different colour hair, if she detected date rape drugs in her drink, someone would still have been raped. He wouldn't think "oh well, she was the only one I was prepared to attack and rape, now she's detected my drugs I guess I'll just go home then".The nail varnish does not prevent rape, and to say it does is dangerous and misleading.

So say, a woman detects a date rape drug in her drink. She gets the hell out of there. The rapist would not give up and go home at this point, he'd find someone else. Someone who doesn't have that nail varnish. By not being "too drunk", or wearing "slutty" clothing, or wearing the special nail varnish, or going home earlier, you don't prevent rape. You sway the odds so it is less likely he will pick you, he is more likely to pick a faceless other girl. Who drank more or wore a shorter skirt or didn't buy the nail varnish and didn't 'protect' herself like you did. As long as you protect yourself, he will most likely choose someone else who didn't protect herself like you. Some who deserved it more than you. And we all know that leads straight to victim blaming and a whole host of disgusting stuff.

Does that explain it clearly why I'm angry? Am I right- or am I wrong? Other opinions and thoughts are welcome, this is just the conclusion I came to.

But the point of it is not to protect individual women. The point is to scare potential drink spikers by making them aware there is a chance they could be caught. At the moment the chance is pretty much zero as the drugs become indetectible in the blood stream so quickly.

When you've been drugged with a date rape drug, from what I've seen and heard from others experiences, you start to feel "wrong" quite quickly. It is then that you could check the drink to confirm?

I don't know how exactly people will use it but I still think it's a good idea.

It's another tool in preventing/deterring would be date rape drug rapists.

I don't think that, when you have been drugged, you are likely to be 'with it' enough to start drink checking and alerting people, are you?

My friend was! She just suddenly started acting like she was wasted but was also confused as she was only on her second drink so couldn't understand why she felt so odd.

I do get what you're saying as this might not be the case for everyone but certainly in my direct experience the effects were enough for her to know something was wrong.

I more meant that, for many women, they would feel so wasted that they wouldn't be able to think straight to take logical actions like reporting and testing. How lucky for your friend that she had trusted friends around. x

I think my reaction to it is "Oh my god, WTF! Is this seriously what we've come to?!"

What happened to the good old days when you could go out, have a drink with your mates and let your hair down, confident in the goodness of human nature that you were gonna make it home without being raped?

But yes, OP you're right. Protecting yourself from the problem doesn't solve the problem, it just shifts it onto someone else.

It's a logistical nightmare, I agree.

Perhaps clubs/bars could have their staff members wearing the nail polish and if something looks "off" they can test the drink of the person acting obliterated/odd.

Well not really, TheSameBoat. If we're all fighting this together instead of making excuses then yes, we can go some way to majorly reducing incidences.

Better to add more tools to the box to fight something that will never be completely eradicated than sitting back and criticising any deterrent that someone invents!

It's another tool in preventing/deterring would be date rape drug rapists

But it won't prevent rape will it? It just means the rapist chooses another woman that day. It merely moves him on.

Agree totally with OP.

By that logic lets all do nothing because it's going to happen to someone anyway

Wouldn't it be better for bar staff to have bits of card or whatever with the colour changing substance so they could check a random sample of drinks/the drink of someone (male or female) who looked drugged or test a drink at the request of friends of an odd-acting person?

The cardboard strips might then be admissible as evidence and far better that they are in the hands of a third party and can be preserved, unlike nail polish.

People could carry their own strips too if they want.

(I think the whole thing is bullshit, BTW, but IF we want there to be a possibility for on the spot testing of drinks, nail varnish seems a peculiarly useless way of achieving it)

This may not be a popular answer, but this whole business (of date-rape drugs) is pretty much a crock. The National Health Service has a report out about it dated 2009, available to anyone: www.nhs.uk/news/2009/10October/Pages/date-rape-drugs-and-alcohol-myth.aspx. I found it with a quick search on [date rape drug "urban legend"]. Yes, the words "urban legend" do appear.

Unfortunately the willingness to take this seriously lines up very well with the recent thread here, "Scare stories aimed at women". Can we please see some citations where any such drug has been used, successfully or not? If people can't actually point to this ever happening, it might be interesting to hear some discussion about why it's so plausible. (And a little nod to the commercial instincts of whoever came up with that nail polish product!)

By the way, the NHS paper says when women think they've been drugged, what's found in their system is usually good old alcohol. There's your date rape drug, for sure.

It would also seem to be vulnerable to the same issues drug testing athletes face. Whoever makes these drugs has a financial incentive to find a modified form that doesn't get detected.

I'd also worry about the false-positive rate from the thing. Given that the vast majority of drinks aren't spiked, the false postive rate needs to be damn near zero for a positive result to mean anything.

Holy fuck, this might be one of the most misogynist paragraphs ever published in the Daily Mail, which takes some doing:
"Date-rape drugs are largely an urban myth used as an excuse by women who booze themselves into a stupor, it has been claimed."

Thanks for the link to the real study summary, Tei, which of course says nothing of the sort.

I think it's also found plausible because it draws a line between a rape that the world sees as "he said, she said" and one about which there is objective proof of bad intent from the outset.

I agree with OP.

There have been a couple of other threads on this as well, which said much the same as you OP.

The thing that I read said this:

"The goal of their company, Undercover Colors, is "to invent technologies that empower women to protect themselves," specifically against sexual assault, they said on their Facebook Page.

"With our nail polish, any woman will be empowered to discreetly ensure her safety by simply stirring her drink with her finger," they said. "If her nail polish changes colour, she'll know that something is wrong."

Nothing to do with catching / discouraging men.

You would have no idea whatsoever who had done it anyway.

Plus you test your drink. It's positive. Someone has spiked you. Who? You have no idea and no way of telling.

Plus if they can't use "date rape" drugs they'll just use something else like booze, or friendliness, or the fact that they are bigger than you , or that they are your workmate and they said they'd take you home etc etc etc

Also i find it revolting that pushing a rapist away from one woman onto another is seen as a "win". How utterly fucked up is that? In what possible world is that a win? Revolting attitude.

Will men also need to wear the nail polish, in case they are drugged by a man or woman who wants to sexually assault them or steal from them?

I completely agree with Seven about the pushing the rapist from one woman to another and seeing that as a success- you said it much more articulately than I did! It disgusts me.

I feel like through social media and websites like 9gag, misogyny is on the rise and with it a new breed of woman who is 'cool' because she is hot, hates feminism, likes video games, guys pizza and beer for her man and watches porn etc. While feminism is reaching more people through social media it does make me feel so fed up and hopeless to see misogynistic bile becoming more common place. That is a discussion for another thread though!

Not another one... [head... desk...]

In what possible world is it ok to sit back and dismiss any suggestion/invention that can help a person better protect themselves?

I don't see any of you coming up with solutions just slating people who do or calling women who use these tools "revolting", essentially.

Quite frankly I find it rather more revolting that some women would rather see/pick fault in any idea that comes up about how a woman can better protect themselves!