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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Please remind me why I'm not letting my daughters have Barbies

97 replies

plantsitter · 06/09/2014 11:06

They really, really want them and it's so difficult to stand firm... Please give me some arguments to keep me (not them!) convinced.

Thanks in advance!

OP posts:

FuckOffWeasel · 07/09/2014 21:28

At the risk of engaging when I know I shouldn't.

Please answer me a question virenall. Why are you here? It's the one thing I never understand about trolls. What do you think is going to happen by you being here?

You aren't clever and you haven't made any arguments of any value.

You've made a few inane comments but other than that...what are you getting from this exchange?

It just seems incredibly sad for a grown man (are you a grown man?) to sit around talking in to the internet about something he has no clue, making him look silly at best, stupid at worst. Is that a satisfying life for someone?

You don't really think any of these women are going to change their mind based on your "me me me" posts do you? Do you?

Shallishanti · 07/09/2014 22:21

....to go back to the question...
my DTs (both girls) had barbies- I remember thinking it would be better to have them then for them to have the allure of the forbidden. So they both had a disney princess barbie- which I thought lent itself to fantasy play. Then DD1 had a Baywatch Barbie! But was known in the house as rescue barbie, so she had adventures rescuing people in the sea with the help of a dolphin. DD2 had a bubble fairy barbie, so her main function was making bubbles. I don't think any of these dolls struck them as having anything remotely to do with real girls and women, and I suppose I protected them for as long as possible from idealised/commercial images- no women's magazines and only watched wholesome kids videos (it was a right laugh round our place)

All of which seemed to work they are strong independent women now with a healthy self esteem always ready to laugh at adverts for cosmetics. Barbies notwithstanding.

Shallishanti · 07/09/2014 22:24

baywatch barbie!

WinifredTheLostDenver · 07/09/2014 22:25

Succinct post, FOW.

virenall · 07/09/2014 22:28

"you haven't made any arguments of any value."

I've pointed out "feeling insecure" by a toy only seems to happen to girls and not boys. You have no answer to why that might be?

ElephantsNeverForgive · 07/09/2014 22:35

Honestly I don't think the toys you play with has much effect on your self esteem. I think you choose the toys your personality draws you to.

DD1 didn't like toys. Much preferred climbing on the furniture and covering the house in glue, glitter and pipe cleaners.

DD2 loved playmobil, toy cars, dolls and pushchairs.

Me I liked Lego.

Why, because DD1 is a natural scientist, who loves art, as much or more, but knows she couldn't make a living. She doesn't still climb, but has a different equally dangerous hobby.

DD2 seeks security and is a bit of a control freak. She liked toys she could act out her ideas with. She wants to teach primary and she will be brilliant. Real small DCs do her bidding just as if they were her playmobil people.

Me, I was born a scientist. I only did girly playing schools etc.if there was no alternative.

Zazzles007 · 07/09/2014 23:56

Please answer me a question virenall. Why are you here? It's the one thing I never understand about trolls. What do you think is going to happen by you being here?

Unfortunately I can answer that question for you Weasel. I have a huge interest in psychology and did a lot of psychology at university. I still retain that interest to this day, and a few weeks ago, I did a little research into the psychology behind misogyny. As far as I could see, the reason many men seem to become misogynists, stems from a feeling that they did not get enough love as child from their mother. They have internalised this message and converted it into a love-hate relationship with women in general - a highly irrational way to think when you analyse it, that all women are somehow responsible for the love you feel you didn't get as a child. So because a man has a problem with the way he was mothered as a child, he converts that to an "I hate all women" mode of thinking and way of living. This irrational mode of thinking ties in with all the other irrational comments and thoughts that you see from misogynists.

As an aside, I mentioned in FWR that I spent 6 months in a group of adult men in an online computer game. All I can say is that it was like being Wendy in Never-Never Land, amongst the Lost Boys. Might I posit that misogynists and MRA-types see FWR as A Never-Never Land full of Wendy's that might give them the love that they didn't get from the mothers. Sadly, even negative attention is still attention if you feel you mother didn't love you enough.

And back to your scheduled viewing.

AnnieLobeseder · 08/09/2014 00:03

"Tell me about your muzzer..."

exexpat · 08/09/2014 00:24

Back on the subject of Barbies - DD had a load of them, but by the time she was about 9 she was doing this to them: Why do girls mutilate their Barbies? It seems to be a very common thing (www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/jessica-biel-i-mutilated-barbie-dolls-as-a-kid-20122911 e.g. Jessica Biel also did it]]).

exexpat · 08/09/2014 00:24

Sorry, second link fail: Jessica Biel

LondonRocks · 08/09/2014 00:41

There's no harm in Barbies. DD has them and also climbs trees, likes insects and bugs, and a wide variety of things. I hate the "pink is evil" claptrap. Too much of anything is not a good idea IMO.

fuzzpig · 08/09/2014 00:44

Fascinating thread.

Not sure how I feel really. I held off for a long time and I think the first time DD got one was as a present. She then went through a phase of spending any birthday money etc on them. She has a monster high doll now too (present from best friend).

I kind of wish I could go back and just get the lottie dolls, which are brilliant (and if potential DC3 wants dolls I would start with them) but TBH I think barbie would still have a huge appeal - and that's even without DD seeing many TV ads (mostly use it for DVDs) - so I do agree with the banning it making it a "thing" argument.

TBH my DD's dolls are never actually played with, unlike say lego and playmobil. She just makes outfits for them which leave scraps of paper all over the house but I have found myself wondering/worrying if the act of making clothes for such an unattainable figure is affecting her. I even considered (as I'm in the process of radically decluttering the house) ditching all dolls except Lottie (and the monster high as it was something she was desperate for since hearing about them in school) but that would definitely make it into a Much Bigger Thing.

LondonRocks · 08/09/2014 00:44

Oh, and personally I find Barbie rather meh. I had a Pippa doll alongside my train set and chemistry set!

RonaldMcDonald · 08/09/2014 00:52

Dunno

I enjoy the movies

ThatBloodyWoman · 08/09/2014 09:01

Thinking on, the barbies my dd's had were ones with some sort of mystical powers such as colour changing wings.

I once walked into a pub, and a bloke piped up "Oh look, Barbie's walked in" - (I looked a bit like the stereotypical barbie at the time-slim with long blonde hair).All the men, including dh thought it was a compliment -dh was brimming with pride.Till I put him straight that is.

Perhaps its the mens view on barbie I should be more concerned about, rather than its effect on my dds, thinking about it...

Mmm.Food for thought.

FuckOffWeasel · 08/09/2014 18:32

So if I gave virenall a cuddle, he'dfuck off?

WinifredTheLostDenver · 08/09/2014 19:13

I'd say it was worth a try, FOW, but I'm not so sure it is...

FuckOffWeasel · 08/09/2014 20:16

Nah probably not...

However virenall (if you haven't been poofed by MNHQ yet... ) and for any lurkers.

We've heard it a million times- because if Barbie were a full-sized human her proportions would be unrealistic. The same could be said for He-Man, but somehow boys manage to grow up without being traumatised by the fact they don't look like the action dolls they used to play with.

And below, your quote from another thread. Think there might be a link?

My young niece gets continual compliments about how "beautiful" she is. But to my knowledge since my nephew grew out of the baby stage noone says he is "beautiful" any more.

SkaterGrrrrl · 25/09/2014 21:45

Thank you SO MUCH for posting the Lottie doll link.

DD is 4 and I will be buying her one for Christmas.

No Barbies in this house - I want more for DD than that silly bimbo.

EElisavetaofBelsornia · 25/09/2014 23:33

I have read this with great interest as DD just today asked me for a Barbie as her present. I'm going to get her a Pirate Lottie.

qumquat · 26/09/2014 08:14

Whatever happened to Sindy??? I used to absolutely love my Sindies and they were a much less sexualised shape and size. Everyone my age (born 79) had Sindies not Barbies. I remember being given one Barbie and thinking it was ridiculous that her feet weren't flat so she had to wear heels all the time and her waist was so tiny.

Flyawaylittlebutterfly · 01/10/2014 18:25

Dd has everything from guns to barbie dolls. I see her little boy friends playing with her 'girl' toys just as much and as happily as the 'boy' toys. Kids are just kids until adults project their mental issues on them.

Whether that's parents who discourage them from toys or activities associated with the opposite sex due to fears they'll end up gay or from parents who discourage them from what they want to play with because they think that playing with a doll will give them an eating disorder.

Quite likely your denial will make your kids want them more to the point of obsession. They'll eventually rebel against you to become your worst nightmare. Much easier to buy them (or similar) and allow them to get bored before moving onto something else.

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