Foetus' right to life vs women's bodily autonomy

[AmberTheCat]

I've just been reading a paper written by a friend of a friend, arguing that a foetus should be seen as having the same right to life as a postpartum human, because there are no lines that can be drawn between a foetus and someone post-birth that couldn't also be drawn between two postpartum humans. He added a note to say that clearly there is a question of how this right to life relates to women's autonomy, but that this wasn't something he was addressing in this paper.

Given that this is surely THE question, can you help me refine my arguments for the primacy of bodily autonomy? My instinctive view is that I can't see any way of denying that a foetus is a human being, or at least has the potential to become a human being, depending on how developed it is, but that the decision of whether or not to allow that (potential) human to grow inside her must still always remain the woman's. I'm quite out of touch with the thinking around this, though, so would welcome pointers.

Thanks!

fwiw my son was born (healthy and well!) at 34 weeks. i am well aware of what a foetus at this stage of gestation is like, and can imagine what a devastating and heartbreaking choice it must be to make.

i cannot believe that anyone can hold so much contempt for women as to imagine it could ever be otherwise

Freya, you seem to Thinkmthat terminations at 35 weeks are carried out when the foetus is healthy and has a chance of life? Most aren't. Almost all aren't.

And anyway, even if they were what makes you think that. Someone would want to have a C-section to remove a foetus and then hand it over to be raised by someone else? Some people just don't want to do that.

freya - maybe if you discovered your baby was going to die at or shortly after birth? Or be severely disabled or live a life of pain? Or something horrendous happened in your personal life that meant you could not bring a baby into it?

Thegoop so dismembering it while in the womb is preferable to handing it over? Nice!

Chibi why would you say I have no compassion or imagination? Give me an example! Wouldn't the woman know about abnormalities before 35 weeks???

No I can't see how aborting a 35 week baby fetus is better than it dying after birth. Both pretty painful I imagine!

Hollie none of those reasons would convince me to abort!

Lucky no one's going to make you then, isn't it

No I can't see how aborting a 35 week baby fetus is better than it dying after birth. Both pretty painful I imagine!

Shit imagination then. Also not all that good at the whole "thinking" thing, eh?

Ok freya... you wouldn't want to do it.

What gives you or anyone else the right to say that no one else can? When did you become able or even qualified to police my body?

Vicmackie what the hell is wrong with you?!
What a stupid thing to say!

Captchaos I thought this was a debate, is my opinion not valid? I don't think anyone should do it that was my point, that doesn't mean I can stop you (although I don't think it's legal anyway is it)

You all go too far... the right to autonomy so far as abortion goes is preserved by law and limited to 24 weeks. After that it is against the law, unless there is a good clinical reason.

It has nothing to do with subjugating women it is common law.

if you want to campaign to change the law in favor of extending the time to 38 weeks or so then by all means do so, I doubt that the rest of the population would support it and its doubtful that such a debate publicly held would advance the cause of feminism. Get real ladies, some of you have very extreme opinions and are rude and unpleasant when you voice them. Sometimes us chaps are scared to go out at night to places where large numbers of women gather for fear of your harassment and derision.

freya, yes it's legal.

freyaW2014 do you not have a reply then?

Fair play if you don't, mate, no one would care, but why bother making a show of yourself?

' so dismembering it while in the womb is preferable to handing it over?'

Yes, you are correct, it is.

Strange question.

I support abortion to term where necessary. Aborting an 8 week old foetus is the same as a 38 week old foetus. The only difference is the attachment the person has to that potential child. This is why my abortion at eight weeks was much easier than my miscarriage at 9 weeks.

Agree wholeheartedly and 100% with SGB's succinct post Fri 15-Aug-14 21:58:30.

a person with compassion doesn't have so much contempt for women that they think they would abort a foetus at 35 weeks gestation on a whim

a person with imagination might be able to imagine a scenario in which abortion of a foetus at 35 weeks gestation was something a woman might consider seriously

hth.

as for opinions being valid, everyone is certainly entitled to one, but not all opinions deserve to be given the same consideration. particularly when they display such incredible contempt for the very people they aim to convince.

I don't think it's a strange question at all. Abortion at 38 weeks is the same as 8 weeks?? Wtaf?

Vicmackie I don't know what you're talking about, answer what? You seem to just enjoy winding people up!

Vicmackie I don't know what you're talking about, answer what? You seem to just enjoy winding people up

If anyone's being obtuse it's you.

"Sometimes us chaps are scared to go out at night to places where large numbers of women gather for fear of your harassment and derision."

Yeah I was giving that one a bit of a swerve petula

Chibi contempt is a bit strong, I just don't agree with it. You take my comments very personally.

Birdman is funny

OK, so there is a theoretical possiblity that one woman in four billion might decide to terminate her pregnancy at 32 weeks because she wants to go on holiday.

So. Fucking. What? When women and babies are dying because of a lack of antenatal care and underfunded maternity units, when women are dying because superstitious men refuse to allow them to terminate unviable pregnancies, does it really matter that a vanishingly small minority of women you don't know and have never met might choose to end their pregnancies for what you might consider frivolous reasons?

Sorry the irony overcame me

everything that SGB says, with a cherry on top