Good little video

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

Was pleased to see this

why didn't you make those points in the first place? i have a much better understanding of your point of view now

PG - probably a bit of laziness on a Sunday morning I'm afraid! And taking a bit of umbridge in there too..

It doesn't matter whether a drunk person would be more comfortable undressed and in bed it would be totally inappropriate for anyone bar very close friends/family to do that.

Leaving them alone with a blanket and a drink is fine.

Well, we assume there is an intimacy of care involved, eg by way of the flicking of hair off her face, which I thought was touching, or others could interpret as invasive and unnecessary. But that could be a moot point? And bear in mind the recovery position to avoid gagging on sick. A blanket and a drink wouldn't suffice for that.

Yup, because a little video which shows a man not taking advantage of a situation where the woman would be able to do nothing to prevent him attacking her should be dissected as to it's relevance regarding up to the minute first aid.

It's not a how to, it's a how not to.

fwiw Capt it fails on effectiveness on both counts, preventing assaults and care for someone out of it. And care for someone, as detailed, who is out of it isn't 'up to the minute' - it's v old and sensible stuff we know?

the video is a response to the rapists who filmed their attack on a woman in exactly that situation

i do understand the problem with the phrase "real men don't rape"

but given the shit ton of stuff out there telling men that taking advantage of women in that situation is what "real men" do, i'm pleased to see one small thing that counteracts that

yes, PG, there is an emotional 'demand' that says 'it's a small thing that should work'... but it doesn't.
To improve, possibly? A voice-over, or on-screen script at the start that says "This is your girlfriend/sister/friend/mother in my flat and she's out of it. What should I do?" Or some such. Quite a challenge. . Appeal to the cerebral cortex in 25 secs. Just not a 'real men' appeal, which is wide open to nonsense.

how is it supposed to "work" though? is it supposed to stop rapists raping, or is it supposed to get boys and young men thinking about the concept of consent, or is it just one small bit of footage that isn't about a woman's body being freely available to men unlike 90% of stuff on the internet that isn't about kittens on roombas? i don't know.

the "girlfriend/sister/friend/mother" idea is extremely problematic. it defines women by their relationship to men. can men really only see women as having the right to consent if they have a close relationship with them? men should be treating women like human beings because they are human beings.

of course it's problematic - most rapes occur within relationships, as we know, but this video was aimed at the opportunistic rapist with a young woman (in context of the U.S. item) who was out through drink/drugs. In that regard, there is no 'relationship' beyond sexually-aggressive male to vulnerable female.
So consent and being a human being is redundant in effect, in these circumstances. My (modest) amendment wasn't about the generality of relationships, it was about working on the potential rapists/abusers wider perception of who they were up for harming, right there.
Not perfect, I know.

What she/he said ^

Buffy, social movement is exactly right. It reminds me of Derek Sivers on Dancing Guy leadership: www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_how_to_start_a_movement

So I have a second question for Pan and Dad. You have a choice:

• join the burgeoning social movement that seeks to make rape less and less acceptable, creating your own contributions that will obviously be much better than this video
• join the already well-established social movement that snipes at others from the sidelines on any and all topics related to protecting women from harm

You've chosen the second thus far. Seeing as you insist you are in this discussion for the right reasons, why not switch your energies and choose the first instead?

Re-reading, it's now dawning on me that Pan appears to buy into some really striking myths about rapists. That they are thick. That they are not ordinary men. That they are incorrigible except through severe punishment. That they are apart from the rest of us.

None of that is true. Rapists are ordinary men. Ordinary men (which is not to say most men) are quite capable of rape, and ordinary men are capable of being discouraged from rape by being immersed in an environment where rape is strongly disapproved of. Ordinary men are also capable of being encouraged to rape by seeing social norms that discourage rape challenged or dismantled. Rape jokes matter for this reason. At the other extreme, it's why so many soldiers rape. Egyptian men are not inherently different from English men, but social norms in Egypt have been dismantled such that more than 80% of Egyptian women have been sexually harassed.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7514567.stm

This is why it is not in any way self-evident that "real men don't rape" and why it's not just "low-life" who need to hear that message.

that was my misremembering i think justtherightbullets, sorry

it is depressing, though the person who uploaded the video did identify it as a response to an actual rape situation

yes absolutely, like if you watch a film and you know what's going to happen because of these tropes about if the woman does x, y, z then the man will do a, b, c

just catching up - and of course seeing how my opening bit on Sunday may/would be interpreted, though the wildly inaccurate assumptiveness thereafter about motives (supports rape myths ) doesn't help either.
The thing about suggesting the improvement wasn't a 'take over because you girlies don't know how to do these things' is massively unfair. I'd considered being so critical, it was a bit incumbent on me to (as I'd said) modestly offer an alternative through experience, nothing more than that.
So I'll probably go back to reading rather than actually saying anything!

fwiw I'd learned today that a particularly notorious sports-based rapist in the UK who is due for release in October continues to be an unreconstructed oik where he is currently. Even the staff who have a caring role in his life are looking fwd to getting him off their books. Unfortunately he will be back with the same mindset he had previously. There is a petition to sign to ask he isn't provided with the same status he had prior to the convicted offence of rape.

okay Buffy, whatever.