Why do women give each other such a hard time?

[superstarheartbreaker]

I find women are in constant competition with each other . It can be about looks, child bearing/ rearing/ men / work blah , blah , blah.
I was talking to my female friends about a nasty comment that one of them made about me and the overwhelming response was that women are bitches.

This makes me sad but there is a lot of evidence to suggest it is true. I am long term single and instead of applauding my independent spirit I have been called many names such as spinster, desperate, sex starved, batting above my average..... By other women!

Am I being unreasonable to wonder if this is natural or a product of patriarchy ? If it is natural then surely feminism cannot fully succeed?

I think someone on here once said that feminism should be about loving women. Not in a sexual way, but in a way that promotes women's well being. Even women who are bigger or smaller, prettier or uglier will have their own problems, so, for me, it's important to try and act in a loving manner to them wherever they are.

This is exponentially difficult with some women, both on here and in real life, but I can see how practicing it might inform my feminism. If that makes sense?

Why do women give each other such a hard time?

I guess you mean in comparison with men to each other? If you felt a particular woman had a possibility of hitting you repeated in the face with her fist if you gave her a hard time, would you? Now imagine that one particular woman as every woman.

Outself - that's interesting about your MIL. I think this is a more general pattern. Mostly when a woman I know (usually at the acquaintance level) says something along the lines of "oh, but women are such bitches..." I start to look out for other patterns in their thoughts - usually before long they'll drop other gems like "of course, men have it harder these days," or mention rape myths ("gosh, I wouldn't let my daughter go out dressed like that...") or some such. They do tend to be the sort of women who've internalised a hell of a lot of misogyny and are invested in policing the patriarchy.

NB - I'd apply my comment above to the woman who made the remark in your OP, Superstar, not to you.

Dunno. I've worked with some right bitches. Every one of them resented other females coming up behind them and having it 'easier'. I found you could work out which were in which clique at school and then they followed that persona through. It's no coincidence an awful lot end up in HR which in corporate world is the biggest 'queen bee' area. Then work diligently on policy ensuring male dominance prevailed.

To my mind we are just human. And 3 of anything makes a crowd. Something along the lines of "three can keep a secret if the other two are dead". Always one vying for alpha dom, male or female.

Pickle - but what about the men you've worked for? Were any of them domineering arseholes? Because your use of "Every one of them" makes me read what you say (apologies if this was not how it was intended) as "all women who reach managerial positions are bitches". Which in turns smacks a bit of that old saw that when a man cocks up, he's just an individual man who's cocked up, whereas when a woman cocks up, she's the living proof that every single woman ever, put in that same position, would cock up.

Disclaimer - I work in a little feminist utopia compared to most work places. Of course it's not perfect - lack of women in senior management, gender pay gaps in some job descriptions - but overall, supportive of women. I got promotion while working part time with a small child, two friends have been promoted to managerial posts while it was obvious to the interviewing panel that they were pregnant, another female friend has just made it to senior management, we have a female head of R&D, very flexible about part time working, and quite a lot of the men work part time to fit round child care too - in fact I don't know of a single man who hasn't taken his two weeks' paternity leave, it's just the done thing. Yes, I can think of the odd female manager who's not been nice to work for, but on the whole (and I'm thinking double figures here) most are damn good managers... and, surprise surprise, no worse or better taken as a group than the men.

So it could be that if you work in a hideously macho workplace, women managers are bitches, due to natural selection - only the bitches survive. But I'd bet that in that sort of environment the mal managers are domineering "dogs" too.

I don't like the word "bitchy". Some of the examples noted by superstar are nasty and sharp-elbowed; others are clumsy and inconsiderate. But they're not specific to women. Men, among themselves, are forever "taking the piss" with regard to each other's appearance and success (or lack of) in dating.

The main differences are:

1 Men are conditioned, from a very young age, to deal with spiteful remarks and bullying behaviour by either "taking it on the chin" or finding someone lower in the pecking order to bully;

2 Men don't use housework as a way of demeaning each other. They blithely expect women to demean themselves by doing it.