New campaign to allow partners to stay on maternity wards.

[MrsCakesPremonition]

MN have started a thread about possibly supporting a new campaign to allow partners to stay overnight on maternity wards.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/a2129215-What-do-you-think-about-spouses-partners-staying-overnight-on-postnatal-wards?msgid=48200610#48200610

I feel very uncomfortable about this for lots of practical reasons, but also partly because it feels like another safe space for women being sacrificed for the convenience of men. However, I'm aware that I may be underplaying women's right to have whatever support they want.
Is this a feminist issue and how are the rights of one group of women (to feel safe) balanced against another group of women (to have the support they want)?

[dreamingbohemian]

Can I ask: how would people feel if mums were allowed to have a female visitor overnight to help her?

I think the key thing is to get women more support, if partners are too controversial, what about female support?

[LurcioAgain]

The ward I was on simply didn't have enough space - if you put in a reclining chair (as they have on the children's wards), you'd cut the number of patient beds from 6 to 4. So then you'd need to spend precious NHS money building new wards (or even private rooms). I'd much sooner the finite pool of resources was spent on more midwives.

[almondcakes]

I think they should trial family support for patients on a male patient ward.

There is no way whatsoever that it is feminist to bring in family support for new mothers on the basis that hospital care isn't good enough. How does that help women who don't have family support? How does it help women who won't go to hospital at all if males are around?

The whole thing is utterly self absorbed. Essentially wanting to take resources away from women who've just given birth so some other woman can have extra support, regardless of medical neccessity.

[ChunkyPickle]

there were female visitors overnight on my antenatal ward - they did everything basgetti's room-mate's partners did - poor visitor behaviour is not limited to men!

The solution is getting the nurse in charge of the ward to tell them to belt up or get out (which she did) - of course it was hard for me to request that given my situation - my (impeccably behaved, and quiet) DP did that for me.

[almondcakes]

No, the solution is to understand it is a hospital not a hotel

I'm sure your DP did leap up and see to your every needregardless of what others needed.

That is why hospitals are staffed by HCPs not people who like you above all other women.

[scotchtikidoll]

I completely agree with whatdoesittake. I lost a litre and a half of blood during labour, and was really upset and affected by the whole thing. A couple of hours later, my OH was asked to go home. I felt like I really needed him- he is my rock. I don't think a homebirth next time is an option, as my chance of hemorrhaging is higher than normal.

With regards to it being a feminist issue, I don't really have an image in my head of it being for the men's benefit (even if it was, so what? They are just as important as the mother, and their feelings just as valid) . I think a lot of times (like in my case for instance) the OH staying would be primarily for the mum's benefit. I appreciate other people don't like men on the ward past a certain time but I think in exceptional cases, there should be a bit of give. I felt too weak to change my son's nappy and I felt bad asking the midwives to constantly jump to my aid. I know they are there to help, but they are hard pressed as it is. I felt like it was my man's job to support me, emotionally and physically. I was in tears all night. Our son had been born a few hours prior and I felt like the precious time together as a family had been taken away a bit. I felt so alone.

Would people object as much to a lesbian partner staying the night? I don't think what is between someone's legs comes into it on this occasion, sorry. But I do understand other people may not be comfortable with it for their own personal reasons, and that's cool with me. If I get pregnant again I may just save up for a private room because I don't want to be in a similar situation to last time. Given by the response on the other thread, having your partner behind the curtain with you, sitting on a chair overnight isn't going to be happening any time soon.

[basgetti]

ChunkyPickle, It may not be limited to men, but it is men who would have the right to stay overnight if this campaign succeeds. Why should I be put in a position of having to police the behaviour of these men when I am feeling poorly and vulnerable? I don't know how they will react to me reporting them.

[dreamingbohemian]

I think it's a bit harsh to say 'self-absorbed' -- what's the section rate in the UK, 25%? In addition to non-CS births that are traumatic, lots of blood loss, etc. So that's a lot of women with medical needs who need extra support that they're currently not getting.

By all means, object to the proposal, but I wouldn't automatically assume the people for it have bad intentions or are selfish or whatever -- I think for many people, it's just being desperate to help and perhaps not thinking through all the potential problems.

[Minnieisthedevilmouse]

Done this twice.

I would have liked a ward bathroom that worked.
Cleaners that cleaned.
Nurses that knew how to breast feed.
Decent visiting hours to allow new fathers to adequately visit, support and return home. Not standard hospital hours.
Staff that communicated properly to me about my treatment.
Access to a counsellor immediately to discuss my emcs first time. Or visit by a pal.
Lights that turned off at night.
Photocopy of my notes as I left.
Discounted parking for first 24-48hrs
Bounty removed.

At no point did I wish my dh to stay overnight and I wouldn't have been happy about staying strangers. You want DP staying, piss off and pay private. NHS must remain benefit for all.

[basgetti]

You want DP staying, piss off and pay private. NHS must remain benefit for all.

Exactly this.

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

Is the OP seriously suggesting men on a maternity ward are going to become dangerous?

Are you seriously suggesting that is never the case? Because if you are it will make it really easy to totally disregard any of your future posts.

[scotchtikidoll]

piss off and pay private

Charming. While I agree somewhat with the sentiment of paying private or having a homebirth if you want your OH staying overnight, you could have worded it more nicely. I'm not exactly rolling in the dough, so will have to save up for a long time as I won't be able to have my first choice of homebirth due to being more likely to hemorrhage and needing monitoring. It's not as easy as 'piss off and pay private' for some people.

[scotchtikidoll]

Minnie sorry to hear you had a shitty stay in hospital, though.

[Sabrinnnnnnnna]

I couldn't support a MN Campaign for this, for the reasons already stated by pp's.

[Golferman]

FFS

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

That Captured Womb article is drivel.

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

The problem chunky is most women will not have a partner with them. Between single mothers and lesbians and women on their second third fourth child where dh is at home with the kids...

Most women will be there on their own feeling vulnerable by someone else husband

dreaming more females on the ward would not bother me, but I can see why it would be an issue for other people and I think it would lead to cries of "discrimination!" from men

Best keep to having proper care available

[Ledkr]

This isn't a competition to see who had the worst birth or lost the most blood though, it's about everybody's right to feel comfortable and able to recuperate in hospital.
The majority of people in hospital are having a tough time and would probably welcome someone with them all the time but the reality at the moment is that it's just not possible.
Some knew who's had a traumatic birth doesn't trump the recently diagnosed terminally ill or a young person having a transplant (my ds is waiting for one) so eventually we wil end up having to provide double the facilities than we already struggle to provide.

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

even if it was, so what? They are just as important as the mother, and their feelings just as valid


Sorry, but no, they aren't.

They aren't patients. My rights do trump theirs. Don't be silly. When men are walking around in dressing gowns with no pants on trying to keep 2 giant maternity pads between their knees so a clot the size of their fist doesn't land on the floor after pushing a 10 pound human out of their butt. Then yes their opinion will be just as valid.

[dreamingbohemian]

I agree that the actual answer is better care and more midwives, but that seems like such a pipe dream at the moment

[ChunkyPickle]

Sod that. National health care can do this, and do it well, because I've experienced it, and even with perfect care my partner was needed (by me)

If a woman had just had major surgery and came on here saying that her DP expected to swan off home while she stayed up and looked after a baby (after barely sleeping for a week before, and poorly sleeping for months before that) he'd be quite rightly vilified for not playing his part.

If people are going to a consultant the advice is often to take an advocate. If going to babycare classes, you'd expect the partner to go along.

A small study shows the majority preferred it, anecdotally I preferred it, the reasons against are:

Violence/abuse - which happens during the day too, and hospitals - particularly post-natal wards already have policies to deal with it.

I don't want a man seeing me - well, I don't want women seeing me either - the ward is the problem, not the men then.

The care should just be better - yes, it should, but the partner isn't just there for that.

No, you shouldn't be put in the position of policing - again, that should be the nurses, again the partners help some, and hinder others - but the service is the problem, not the partners.

And yes, he did leap up to my every need, so that I wasn't ringing the bell to get help instead, or trying to get to the toilet/crying baby whilst still waiting for the epidural to wear off and falling, or to find out how on earth I go about getting food at some point, or remembering to ask about pain med prescriptions at discharge since no-one else had remembered, or wound care advise which no-one had offered when I was still rather under the weather (to put it mildly) having just had a baby. This meant that the breast-feeding help, the midwives, the bloody mattress turners, could all go and help the people who needed it, rather than me who'd brought her own.

[dreamingbohemian]

Actually I've just remembered something that's making me angry.

A couple years ago, many of us on here begged MN to have a campaign for better postnatal care. There were some very long threads at the time about how awful it was for so many women and we thought MN could put a big push into this.

Well they didn't. Shockingly, I think.

So now why the interest in a campaign to allow men on the wards???

Why not a campaign for better postnatal care? Hmm...

[HavanaSlife]

Quartber what do you mean what do I think they would do? I don't think they would have done anything, they wouldnt have been able to help thats for sure.

I didnt really want to be on all fours with everything on display in front of anyone, and no especially not of lots of non medical men. Im sure the majority of patients husbands wouldnt have wanted to see it either.

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

chunky have you read the other thread, some really good posts about why people would feel really uncomfortable. Several form midwives.

[HavantGuard]

MN have said they won't be supporting this.