New campaign to allow partners to stay on maternity wards.

[MrsCakesPremonition]

MN have started a thread about possibly supporting a new campaign to allow partners to stay overnight on maternity wards.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/a2129215-What-do-you-think-about-spouses-partners-staying-overnight-on-postnatal-wards?msgid=48200610#48200610

I feel very uncomfortable about this for lots of practical reasons, but also partly because it feels like another safe space for women being sacrificed for the convenience of men. However, I'm aware that I may be underplaying women's right to have whatever support they want.
Is this a feminist issue and how are the rights of one group of women (to feel safe) balanced against another group of women (to have the support they want)?

[HavanaSlife]

A man who stayed with his dw. Even!

[diddlediddledumpling]

the hospital where I had ds2 and ds3 had a 'home from home' facility, which wS wonderful: your own large birthing room with your own birthing pool and bathroom attached, and was an absolute dream . They also had a fold out bed so that partners could stay overnight too. Not quite the same as is being discussed here because it wasn't in a ward of 6 beds.
While dh did stay, I'm not sure there was much value to him doing so (for me anyway. I'll ask him later how he found it.) He slept the whole night, cos he was so tired, poor dear. perhaps because the three of us all spent our first hours together it helped to forge a strong bond, and strengthen the family feeling, but I'm not convinced.
I wouldn't be happy to share a ward with fathers aftrr giving birth, not when you're traipsing to the fridge every few hours for your witch hazels soaked pads. I agree it's an erosion of a woman's space.

[quertber]

"would have been a room full of men."

What do you think they would do?

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

It's common in the States for fathers to stay overnight with mothers and babies, but it is also common for the rooms to be private. On a ward, I think it would be very undesirable for many of the reasons stated on this thread and the other one, and yes, I agree that it is a feminist issue.

[Ledkr]

If you are in a minority and want your partner to stay the night then I suggest you pay for it as it's not available on the NHs.
The argument if needing ones man with them could be applied to a lot of other types of patients, I've been a cancer patient and long worrying nights in hospital were awful and I'd have loved someone with me but that's not an option.
Having had five children by c section two after I'd had a double mastectomy so scars visible in nightwear, and had to wear a catheter and no pants with a pad balanced precariously between my thighs I'd have bloody hated people's husbands sat there just because someone else wanted them there.

[squizita]

Quertber (!!!!!) I don't think she meant they'd DO anything. But surely you can understand being in a room with several men when on all fours having your vagina examined would feel uncomfortable and exposing? Surely?

[PetulaGordino]

i don't think quertber much cares how women feel tbh

(and he has misunderstood the meaning of "them" above)

[JennyOnTheBlocks]

Don't give it oxygen, don't let him make it all about him, please

[Quangle]

No bloody way. Mat wards are about women and babies. Men can visit - that's all. If you want DH overnight get a private room.

[CripesItsTheGasMan]

I wouldnt feel comfortable if I was in a bay of 6. Especially when you're trying to breastfeed etc. I had an EMCS at 7pm and DP was then asked to leave at 10pm. Yeah it was horrible but I had a lot of help from the midwives.

1 week later I was back in hospital with sepsis and in a private room with bathroom. My DP was allowed to stay with me in my room as the staff were busy and he looked after DD. he didn't once leave the room in the night as he didn't want to make any of the other women uncomfortable.

[Crapdelacrap]

Allowing male or female visitors to stay overnight is a ill thought out proposal. Visitors can often be quite a (noisy) nuisance on maternity wards during normal visiting hours. Having them stay overnight would be awful.

NO to male (or female) overnight visitors at the hospital from me.
-I usually tend to support mn campaigns--

[ChunkyPickle]

I had my first (by emergency c-section) in Canada, where I had a room to myself in labour, and after. The maternity nurses and consultants were all excellent, attentive, helpful, listened to me and gave me choices, responded when I called, made sure I had the correct pain relief etc. and still, for the first little while I was so, SO glad my partner was with me (I cried when he had to leave to find food), as post-section I was still shaky on my legs, feeling a rather worn and overwhelmed. His support was indispensable, and that was in a wonderful (Canadian national health) hospital with awesome staff.

I had my second in the UK (another EMCS), where I was bullied by consultants, midwives, people spoke over me, didn't listen to me or read my notes, I don't know who in the room did my surgery as they didn't introduce themselves and no-one checked on me afterwards. I got out of there in less than than 24 hours because I didn't feel I was getting the care I needed anyway - DP's support would have been invaluable, but he couldn't be there because we had the older one, and because he wasn't allowed on the ward - if it had been my first baby I would have been absolutely in bits by the end of it (literally, given what they wanted to do to me) if I hadn't already had the previous good experience and so could cling onto my pre-thought out plans through the pain and bullying.

TBH I agree that partners on the wards is a quick-fix solution. I felt that the beds straight out of call the midwife (fun trying to sit up when you've just been sliced in two and have no-one to help), the showers with narrow doors, which you had to step up 8 inches to get into (carrying your catheter bag thing, trying not to disturb stitches), the midwives who don't answer alarms, check that you have medication, or that you know how to get some food are a problem.

If all that isn't going to be fixed (and I can't see that it will), then at least my partner being there means I have an advocate, someone who can go and get painkillers, help me to the toilet, hold the baby and help me out of bed when there is no-one else going to do that. He's there to listen when I'm spaced out from pain or painkillers and ask important questions that I hadn't thought of.

I understand the issue with women's only spaces, I understand that there is abuse, but I also know that I was a vulnerable person who needed someone to speak for me - and that is DP.

On a lighter note - the other patients and midwives were perfectly capable of disturbing me with loud calls, whooshing of curtains and pointless conversations - no-one needed a partner there to do that, and frankly, I'd prefer that no-one on the ward - male or female - got a view of me having my catheter taken out, but that would again be a problem with midwives not checking before whooshing curtains aside rather than the sexes/genders of the people sharing the ward.

[Crapdelacrap]

Can you imagine all the men snoring in addition to babies crying? No one would be able to get any sleep at all.

More qualified overnight support on postnatal wards however is a campaign I would whole heartedly support.

[ChunkyPickle]

Noise from overnight visitors on the children's ward (where they had nice, electric beds I noted) was dealt with sternly when DS1 was there for a week - DP and I alternated staying with him (it was required that a parent was there). If they can cope in the children's ward, and call security if there are issues, then I can't see why they wouldn't be able to cope with it on the post-natal.

[PetulaGordino]

this gives some details of a pilot undertaken in doncaster (see page 54). curiously, it reports feedback from the fathers who stayed, and from mothers whose partners did not stay. i can't see any report of feedback from the mothers whose partners stayed

[ChunkyPickle]

I'm not normally all about the menz - but snoring? Really?

Plenty of pregnant and newly un-pregnant women snore (I know I did - especially when forced to lie on my back) - the babies snuffle, the nurses wander around, people drop things - I don't think 'men snore' is a particularly reasoned response!

[ChunkyPickle]

That's interesting Petula - I see that it was generally a positive reponse.

There is some feedback from the mothers with partners who stayed:

‘I felt more able to relax knowing he was there’
• ‘Nice to know I have love and support at hand’
• ’It was a tough night. The moral support and help from my husband was great.’

And also support from the people without fathers who stayed, saying that they weren't disturbed at all.

[ChunkyPickle]

Ugh, sorry, I don't know where the spaces went! Those were quotes from page 56

[JennyOnTheBlocks]

I snore like sawing wood, but men on maternity wards isn't about that really is it?

Why do they need to be there?

support is not a valid reason really, because a man will only be there as a support for his partner. He won't be able support to anyone else, or even the staff.

A man would only be on a maternity Ward (not talking children's/medical Ward) because he felt entitled to be there. . .

[PetulaGordino]

ah i missed that (there is a formatting error that makes it look like the feedback from the mothers is part of that from the fathers)

[ChunkyPickle]

No, DP was there because I wanted him there - believe me, he wanted to leave (I cried when after nearly 24 hours with no food he suggested he went and found some)

Good for you if you were brave and strong and sailed through labour, but I didn't - either time - and he kept me going and helped me make the decisions I needed to make.

[LurcioAgain]

Have looked up the webpage of this Birthrights lot, and here is what they have to say about feminism and childbirth:
this!

Apparently feminists largely ignore childbirth and all we're interested in is supporting women to be career women just like men: "although arguably the equation of work with equality – a capitalist hijacking of oppression – unravels when children arrive" - as far as I can tell, the author thinks she is scoring a point against feminism by saying this, because, err, no feminist has ever said precisely this...

[JennyOnTheBlocks]

So what about those of us who didn't have a partner to be there during labour?

The support and help wasn't second best for me, I wasn't left to my own devices because there was no man around.

The support and care came from staff.

Maybe the issue is that more women should be supported to give birth at home?

[dreamingbohemian]

It points to so many inequalities in postnatal care.

If you're in a MLU you get a private room, you can stay for hours after birth, your partner can stay (on a foldout bed even!) -- so in cases where there are few complications and less need for support, partners can stay.

But if you have a CS and end up on a postnatal ward and needing lots of practical (not just emotional) support then you're shit out of luck. How is that fair?

When I was in, the women next to me was left all night with just-born TWINS after an extremely traumatic birth. The midwives disappeared for hours, she was on her own with two tiny babies and just sobbing her heart out. Me and another woman who'd just had sections crawled out of bed to help her.

We would have been happy for her husband to stay but he was not allowed.

I am very torn because I understand all the objections but in the meantime women are really suffering on the wards.

And I agree with whatdoesittake, right now men are sent home for a nice sleep while women are up all night, often physically exhausted and/or post-surgical, caring for baby all on their own -- what kind of dynamic does that establish from the start?

[basgetti]

I posted on the other thread, I was yesterday discharged from an ante natal ward where partners had very relaxed (seemingly non existent) visiting times.

I was in with hyperemesis, was very poorly, retching, on a drip and had to go backwards and forwards to the toilet and leave bedpans in there for my urine to be checked. Some of the time I couldn't access the toilet due to partners being in there even though it was clearly for patients only.

Another partner who had arrived with his wife early in the morning for induction decided to turn the bedside TV on full volume and not use the headphones, despite it being an inpatient ward with poorly women trying to sleep.

Another man kept walking in and out of the bay at 1am, past my bed, on his phone, being noisy. I couldn't relax or sleep and felt very uncomfortable.

The first night I was on the gynae side with proper visiting times and it was much better, before I was moved. I don't think all men are dangerous or bad, but the ones I encountered were thoughtless at best. There is a possibility I will require more admissions during this pregnancy and the thought of it makes me feel quite distressed due to this very issue.