Why has the trans/sex/gender debate emerged at this moment?

[UptheChimney]

That's it: what is at stake that this argument/attack on feminists from trans people has emerged at this moment?

As a late 70s feminist, my experience of trans issues was that there was huge discrimination for those who didn't fit into heteronormativity, and I could see how lesbian & gay people had much in common with trans people. And with feminists.

Solidaritry wasn't uniform: while lesbian feminism was very strong, gay men were pretty misogynist and elements of the male gay movement still are the non-monogamous etc etc versions of "gay lifestyles" are pretty masculinist in a very unreconstructed way: the idea that men are driven by sex, and should have the freedom to have sex when/where/whatever. But that's another thread.

So what are the views on why this battle between trans people and some feminists? Is it another "What about teh menz?" Is it because women are expected simply to care about everyone else?

Ideas? Views?

[ArcheryAnnie]

But I actually think rape happens in them no matter the perceived gender of the victim so it makes sense to deal with the men who are in there raping other men.

Yes, exactly. Men are at risk of rape in men's prisons as well as trans women. That doesn't mean the issue should be shifted to women's prisons.

[ApocalypseThen]

I don't completely disagree that there's a risk, but I don't accept that people who've lived as transwomen for an appreciable amount if time are a risk. If there are men unscrupulous enough to sham being transwomen in order to gain access to women's prisons thereby making it impossible for transwomen to be even semi-integrated, I think that's another instance of women and transwomen being victims of male violence.

Overall, I see the threat to transwomen as very similar to the threat to women. As a human, I don't want to throw transwomen under the bus, even while I accept that it may be inevitable as things currently stand.

[ArcheryAnnie]

I don't think "not putting trans women prisoners into women's prisons" need necessarily equal "throwing trans women under the bus", though. There are other options which could keep everyone safe (even if not meeting the need of trans women for validation). What do you think should have been done in the Paris Green case?

[Hazchem]

Apcoloypse I've never heard of symphiosotomy. I'm both horrified and almost not shocked that is was practiced. Only this week I read of a new York Ob writing that while the women was competent to make her own decisions he was over riding them and performed a cesarean against her wishes.

[scallopsrgreat]

Oh how awful, symphiosotomy. Really shocking and heartbreaking. Was it Solanis or Dworkin who said that nothing women could do to men, hadn't already been done by men to women (paraphrasing, obviously)?

"I think the liberal feminists have ducked out of these questions completely, frankly, and so it falls to the radfems" Yes I think you are right. Although not sure it's lib fems rather than third wavers. And in some cases they go so far as to perpetuate the whole thing of women exist in relation to men. I do think trans* feed into this.

[ApocalypseThen]

I will admit that I don't keep up with the UK news that diligently, so I hadn't read about that case. It doesn't really change my basic thought though, that the real problem is male violence, and transwomen are terribly at threat from that, too. I think society needs to recognise this and design facilities for that violence to be avoided. But for some reason, transwomen prefer to make this women's responsibility to alleviate rather than calling men out.

Anyway, the symphiosotomy thing is shocking and an example of how women are abused because of female biology. If women can't say vagina of womb or whatever, what happens then?

I read on a blog post today a transwomen saying how she'd love to have had periods. How does she know? What periods would she like to have had?