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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Orange is the new black

57 replies

MontyGlee · 03/07/2014 22:13

TV Through a feminist lens.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ellie-slee/orange-is-the-new-black-fans_b_5544230.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

OP posts:
CroydonFacelift · 06/07/2014 13:16

SPOILERS here

I am just enjoying watching something funny and gritty with a mostly female cast. I think the characters are well written, with the exception of the female prison governor, who was funny at first bit became a thin caricature as S2 closed.

The 'power hungry career bitch deserves a cheating gay husband' storyline was crap. The blowjob scene was crass and didn't fit with the way sex is handled in the rest of the series.

I also think the grim men in the series are very cleverly written.

ThisLittlePiggie · 06/07/2014 14:13

So a long paragraph about a well written female and two mentions of a show I felt handled it much better and somehow I don't like watching females?

I'm not sure why we can't debate without getting personal but as it doesn't seem possible I will bow out and leave you to it. Must be the colour of my eyes or something....who knows

TheHoneyBadger · 06/07/2014 14:19

i was confused as to why you wanted to constantly compare to very male centric shows.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 06/07/2014 17:05

I think it is brilliant. Funny, interesting, great to see so many actresses get a chance to be something beside "hot girlfriend number 2". Amazing to see so many women of colour but also showing the racism inherent in the prison system and the way they end up being ignored. I don't think the fact that they are being treated like crap by one of the male guards is problematic. Men in power have often abused the women they are in power over. The women don't roll over in play dead do they?

LegoSuperstar · 06/07/2014 19:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheHoneyBadger · 07/07/2014 11:34

exactly though - why would you compare it an award winning male centric show? does everything get measured to such a standard?

i'm not reducing women to their orgasm - i was pointing out that generally sex is portrayed about everything BUT a female orgasm or around a woman acting orgasmically over something that is clearly more orientated to male pleasure than female.

TheHoneyBadger · 07/07/2014 11:39

fwiw i didn't find the sex in the show to be of the titillating kind or about shock value - i found it was mostly used for humour - like the annoying girl who never stopped talking ever when someone was going down on her, or the ego battle of the two very sexual lesbians trying to prove who could get the most women.

i certainly don't think it would be wank fodder for blokes in any way in the way it was portrayed.

i think this may well come down to different senses of humour and comfort with sexuality and stuff than anything else.

7Days · 07/07/2014 11:48

why would you compare it an award winning male centric show

I suppose because in a male centric show the male characters don't get defined by sex as much. Sure they have sex, but it's a minor part of their personalities compared to pretty much any female character ever, who is defined in terms of her looks, her sexuality and who she is having sex with.

It's not much to do with 'comfort with sexuality' really, that sounds a bit like saying You're All Prudes! to me. Not trying to cause a row here just pointing out the 'echoes' of the statement.

TheHoneyBadger · 07/07/2014 12:22

but the characters in this aren't defined by sex and who they're having sex with.

7Days · 07/07/2014 12:27

To me, they were. It was hugely over emphasised. I used to watch Oz, another very good prison drama. There wasn't as much long lingering sex in that afair. But then, it was a male prison.

but then 'too much' is subjective and if that's where I draw the line the show isn't for me.

Original poster
MontyGlee · 07/07/2014 12:34

I remember lots of sex in Oz, but most of it was male rape so maybe that's different. You put up with male rape 7Days, but a bit of lingering lesbian sex was too much? Ok.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 07/07/2014 12:41

yeah. i'm sorry but i really think you need to examine why it was so 'too much' and beyond the pale for you.

this was women with whole personalities having sex for sexual pleasure just as a 'thing' they did as part of their spectrum as a whole person. in most shows women are things cast purely to have sex with males frequently and truly are defined, and only have a role, because they are the girlfriend or wife. men have sex without it being all they're about or it being seen as belittling them.

perhaps it is a side of female sexuality that you don't identify with or feel comfortable with - which is fine - but that doesn't mean it doesn't represent women or was bad or 'too much'. if a show isn't for you then fine it's not, we all have different tastes but to be so 'eww'ish about female sexuality being portrayed in a pretty blunt and non romanticised fashion needs examining imho.

7Days · 07/07/2014 12:43

don't be stupid Monty, ok?

Honeybadger I may well be misremembering it, it was on ages ago. But I don't recall male characters being defined by sex in the way that women are. that's what gets on my wick, and why I was disappointed with Orange. I had heard it was really good and different and the first episode seemed to be the same old same old Women Gettin' It On. I mean that's hardly unusual on tv

TheHoneyBadger · 07/07/2014 12:44

i think it says something that watching sexual violence was less shocking or disturbing for you than watching women getting each other off and being happy/humorous/casual about it.

seriously! that says something. you were watching something you haven't been conditioned to see as ok and found it 'too much'. yet watching violent sexual assaults was alright. it says something about the diet we are fed.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 07/07/2014 12:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

7Days · 07/07/2014 12:49

or, i misremembered it as it was so long ago? shouldn't have brought it up as it wasn't clear in my memory, and now the thread will take that turn.

i definitely am not ok watching rape and would watch loads of happy sex all day rather than that. just to make that clear. it's a totally different scenario one is horrible and upsetting and one is just overdone and used to characterise women in a way that is not done for men

that is my point. just that.

don't think there is much need to get personal

7Days · 07/07/2014 12:53

I think you are right about the diet we are fed, though. it is insidous

Original poster
MontyGlee · 07/07/2014 12:54

Yes, how stupid of me to notice your tolerance of male rape when set against an intolerance of loving lesbian scenes.

OP posts:
7Days · 07/07/2014 12:55

you're a one monty

Original poster
MontyGlee · 07/07/2014 12:55

But yes, let's not get personal Grin

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 07/07/2014 13:45

the personal is political and all that Wink

no one was insulting 'you' but questioning your perspective and examining it's potential roots.

feminism and all that innit?

LegoSuperstar · 07/07/2014 14:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

differentnameforthis · 07/07/2014 14:04

The women are prisoners, most of the guards are men, if that's not enough for us to know our place, all of the men abuse their position with the women in their own special way. Nothing feminist about that.

The real Piper (the show is based on her book) says that prisons are 'overwhelmingly" staffed by men! The show is trying to portray her story, so if her story is that she came across more men wardens than female, I think it would have been wrong to change that, purely to make it 'more feminist'

Piper Kerman interview

King1982 · 07/07/2014 14:30

Regarding the sexual scenes in the show, both of my lesbian friends said that they did find them at times a turn on.

7Days · 07/07/2014 14:31

True HoneyBadger and anyway I kind of brought it on myself by bringing up something I couldn't defend right as part of my argument...

Anyway my point isn't the sex, it's the centrality of sex when it comes to female characters. Like in Gardeners World. (or hang on... have I got that right....?)

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