Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

967 replies

whenwilltherebegoodnews · 19/05/2014 13:35

I have a few friends who, because their DHs are high (6 figure) earners, are able to be SAHMs, and have no intention of ever returning to work. These women are all at least degree educated and previously had successful careers.

I just wonder, in such a situation, how a long term SAHM encourages her DD to realise her academic/career potential, if the example she sets is that her education is only a short term requirement until she meets a high earning man?

I'm not trying to start a bun fight, I'm genuinely interested. My own mother is university educated, and has always worked in some capacity, successfully managing her own businesses with being the main carer, and encouraged me to be financially independent.

Personally, I feel I have invested too many years, and too much money, in my education and career to give it up forever after only 10-15 years. I like to think I am setting a good example to my DD that career and family are not mutually exclusive.

So how does a long term SAHM reconcile this? Am I thinking too simplistically?

OP posts:
FidelineandFumblin · 19/05/2014 19:07

choose for themselves if they want to follow the sort of career path that might mean they can't afford childcare and thus have to stop work

Whoa. Catty much?

HercShipwright · 19/05/2014 19:09

People I work with often ask me what I do about my kids. The women generally ask because they actually want to know, they are either interested in my kids, or interested in ideas for how they might make their lives work. Some of the men are also interested in ideas. But most of them do so from the perspective that I shouldn't be working, my place is with my kids. It's very sad. I'd like it if my girls never had to go through that sort of quizzing. I'd like it if my son never asked such a stupid question.

dingit · 19/05/2014 19:09

Here here beepingbeep!
I am a sahm due to various circumstances. Will that affect my dd. No I don't think so. I hope I've bought up a daughter that knows her own mind ( as I do) and is confident to make choices as and when she needs to. I will support her choices as much as I can.

For what it's worth, I think some people just over think things. There are all sorts of influences on a child's life. Are they influenced by all of them? I really don't think so.

HercShipwright · 19/05/2014 19:12

fide not at all. But it really pisses me off when people who SAH because of finances dress it up as a moral good. Because it isn't. It's an economic choice or a lifestyle choice but it is no better than working. Unless the person working HATES it. The OP is about the messages we give our kids. I think the message that career choice can have long reaching implications is a good one to get across (my kids are unlikely to choose lucrative careers, and I support them in that but I have made damn sure they realise what the possible consequences might be). Anyone who gives a child the message that women should stay at home because that's what they do is doing everyone else a disservice.

FidelineandFumblin · 19/05/2014 19:12

Being a sahm does not mean I don't value education, financial independence (for women especially) and does not mean I'm a 'lazy slacker' and submissive. I'm none of those things. Infact, I'm a great advocate of feminism and so is my dh.

Quite. Some people have very narrow lives and/or a complete lack of imagination.

BravePotato · 19/05/2014 19:14

I am a long term SAHM of sorts (only work 10 hrs a week outside the home).

I don't usually feel the need to justify my choices to anyone, but have wondered if my DSs will think women 'should' do all the housework.

I have told them that if I were to work full time, someone else would have to do the shopping/cooking/cleaning/picking them up from school/helping them with homework etc.

They are also very appreciative of me always being there for plays/sports days/dealing with problems and worries they have.

but yes, there is a nagging voice in my head some times. Hence the part time job, which is a stepping stone to working a bit more outside the home now that the boys are getting bigger.

I love the bit of my job which is looking after them, including cooking, but i loathe the endless washing and cleaning.

HercShipwright · 19/05/2014 19:17

Brave - it sounds like you have a really good balance. :)

FidelineandFumblin · 19/05/2014 19:19

Well you seem to be saying there Herc that anyone who cannot afford two sets of FT pre-school childcare, 'chose' not to earn enough. Which is an incredibly snotty assertion.

But it really pisses me off when people who SAH because of finances dress it up as a moral good. Because it isn't. It's an economic choice or a lifestyle choice but it is no better than working.

And this ^ is a nonsense because a) such decisions are usually multi-factoral so 'dressing up' doesn't come into it and, b) A great many people there is an advantage to home-based care in the early years, feel it is the best choice for their child (not necessarily every child) and feels some form of values/quality/duty based pull towards that option and rearrange their lives accordingly. The fact that you don't feel the same doesn't make it ok to disparage other people's priorities and value systems.

JimmyCorkhill · 19/05/2014 19:20

Its only possible to choose not to work by either finding a high earning partner or living off state benefits (be it full benefits or top ups). Neither which i'd encourage either a DD or DS to do.

I'm a SAHM with a low/mid earning partner (£30,000) and we don't claim benefits (apart from child benefit). He actually earns less than I did before leaving work. We live in an expensive city and have no family support. We just prioritise my choice to stay at home over new cars/holidays/clothes/nights out etc. I have looked at the finances and all I would achieve if I returned to work is to pay for the childcare. I didn't love my job. DH loves his. We're both happy.

Susannah you mentioned a husband supporting a SAHM to not work but I see DH and me as a team as someone upthread said. We support each other. They're his kids too. He's been able to become self employed and work unusual hours because of me. He's thriving.

I don't judge anyone's choice to work or be at home because I'm happy with my choice. What others do does not affect my day to day life.

BravePotato · 19/05/2014 19:20

not sure.

90% of the time I am happy, which is not bad.

But occasionally I get the rage and want to throw plates !!!

StealthPolarBear · 19/05/2014 19:30

"barrackobana Mon 19-May-14 16:52:46

DM was your typical career woman, out before we left for school and not back till 7.30pm sometimes 9pm everyday. She had a good career but i hated the fact she was never in and I had to take on the role of cooking for the family and helping younger db and dsis with home work, DF was in an equally high powered job."

So why is your problem only with your mum? The fact your dad also had a career is an afterthought - that's what men do, but if women do it they do it at the expense of being 'a good mother'?

morethanpotatoprints · 19/05/2014 19:30

Fideline

Being a sahm rather than working is better for my family, I think this is usually what people mean.

JimmyCorkhill

This is us too, not many of us about anymore, so I'm told.

HercShipwright · 19/05/2014 19:32

Stealth. Exactly. And it looks like the same views are being perpetuated for yet another generation.

FidelineandFumblin · 19/05/2014 19:34

Being a sahm rather than working is better for my family, I think this is usually what people mean.

Quite and often there will be an element of 'values' in that decision, most obviously the relative value people attach to family time vs money.

For other people to brand that value-driven decision-making bogus is so rude.

Phineyj · 19/05/2014 19:37

I always find there is a bit of necessity dressed up as virtue on these threads. I hope when DD grows up she will be able to make her choices without so much dissection, discussion and general fretting. I chose to go back to work as I need the mental stimulation. In fact I would happily have gone back when DD was 3 or 4 months, but felt I had to stay off longer due to the paid maternity (she is v.outgoing and positively enjoys childcare, which helps).

My DM gave up a successful business to bring up my DSis and me. It was definitely the right choice for her, but she has supported what I have done (it probably helps that I'm in the same profession as her). She retrained successfully when DSis and I were primary age.

OP, I think if you are happy with your life and the choices you made and are positive about friends and family who made different ones, your DDs are getting a good message.

FidelineandFumblin · 19/05/2014 19:39

So why is your problem only with your mum? The fact your dad also had a career is an afterthought - that's what men do, but if women do it they do it at the expense of being 'a good mother'?

Exactly.

Don't see how slagging SAHMs off helps though.

FlatPacker · 19/05/2014 19:39

Where's the feminist analysis here? If 95% of SAHP are women this is obviously going to set the example to young girls and boys that it's the wives who stop work to look after kids. A woman very conscious of feminist thinking will surely want to analyse very carefully why and if she wants to pause her career for 5/10 years?

HercShipwright · 19/05/2014 19:42

What's rude is labelling the choice as being family time v money.

What's indefensible - and damaging to society as a whole, as well as to your own kids, is bringing them up with the idea that women 'should' stay at home because that's what women do.

The job I do has a certain amount of social value, as does the job that DH did and still does on a more freelance basis. Not as much as being a nurse or a dentist, but not negligable either. It benefits society that we work. If we successfully achieve in our aim of installing the belief in our kids that nobody 'has' to stay at home for anything other than reasons stemming from their own choice (nothing to do with the role of women) or adverse financial circumstances, then that will have benefitted society too. Because there will be at least one man not asking stupid arse questions about what his female colleagues do about their kids (in disapproving tones) and at least two women who know to give such stupid arse questions the shortest of shrifts.

StealthPolarBear · 19/05/2014 19:42

I didn't (or was that a general comment)

BravePotato · 19/05/2014 19:42

But it also depends whether you see the SAHP (often the woman as you say) as the lucky one with the best deal, or the career person.

You see, I am not sure I got the worst deal as a SAHP.

If it is through choice, and you enjoy it, surely it is a valid choice even from a feminist point of view?

Only if women stay at home because they are bullied into it, and unhappy, is it an issue…?

FidelineandFumblin · 19/05/2014 19:42

A woman very conscious of feminist thinking will surely want to analyse very carefully why and if she wants to pause her career for 5/10 years?

Yes but she might decide, after consideration, that she does so anyway.

Until we have entirely closed the pay gap there will always be a slant on that choice.

HercShipwright · 19/05/2014 19:46

Flat there's a glaring absence of feminist thinking in this thread, sadly. For me, it's not about having to pause my career - it's about my girls possibly having to pause theirs. Like it or not.

FidelineandFumblin · 19/05/2014 19:46

What's indefensible - and damaging to society as a whole, as well as to your own kids, is bringing them up with the idea that women 'should' stay at home because that's what women do.

How do you get to there from what I said?

StealthPolarBear · 19/05/2014 19:49

Well comments like I hated the fact my mother wasn;t there when I came in from school. My dad also had a high-flying job. Kind of promotes the assumption that it's out of sorts for a woman to have a career.

HercShipwright · 19/05/2014 19:50

I didn't get that from what you said. It's what I've been arguing SAHMs should strive to avoid. So long as they do, I don't care whether they work or not. But those people in this thread pretending staying at home is a moral good are doing everyone else, and al our kids, a disservice.

You do realise that while women volunteer to stay at home and be shafted and pretend to themselves and everyone else that this is because it's the right thing to do rather than the necessary thing, the pay gap will never close. If women told their kids 'I have to stay at home because the work I do isn't valued as highly as the work a man does by society even though it is at least as valuable - maybe more' then we would have a generation coming through who understood the implications of entrenched sexism. As it is, we seem to have another generation coming through who mainly will think it's fine. That might not worry you. But I have two daughters and it worries me.