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Original poster

Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

967 replies

whenwilltherebegoodnews · 19/05/2014 13:35

I have a few friends who, because their DHs are high (6 figure) earners, are able to be SAHMs, and have no intention of ever returning to work. These women are all at least degree educated and previously had successful careers.

I just wonder, in such a situation, how a long term SAHM encourages her DD to realise her academic/career potential, if the example she sets is that her education is only a short term requirement until she meets a high earning man?

I'm not trying to start a bun fight, I'm genuinely interested. My own mother is university educated, and has always worked in some capacity, successfully managing her own businesses with being the main carer, and encouraged me to be financially independent.

Personally, I feel I have invested too many years, and too much money, in my education and career to give it up forever after only 10-15 years. I like to think I am setting a good example to my DD that career and family are not mutually exclusive.

So how does a long term SAHM reconcile this? Am I thinking too simplistically?

OP posts:
Atbeckandcall · 19/05/2014 21:28

So you're not judging or being smug then handcream?

handcream · 19/05/2014 21:28

There are plenty of women who state their place is at home and then their partners leave them (50 percent divorce rate and higher for people living together) and wonder where it all went wrong or slag off their partners for leaving them in this position.

handcream · 19/05/2014 21:30

No, I am responding to the statement that SAHM are no worse off then working mums financially. By default that cannot be true!

Atbeckandcall · 19/05/2014 21:33

Then state just that. I'm sure there are some pretty smart children that see one parent working and one as a SAHP and can see beyond those two judgements.

I knew from a young age that I wanted to be a SAHM but that didn't mean slacked off at school or fought out a deathly husband. My parents sat me down and told me about the "real world" and everyone needs a plan b. so I did just that. It's really not a difficult one to get round.

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 19/05/2014 21:33

Maybe it's not about justifying being a SAHM but thinking about the lessons it is teaching. For me SAHMs who were well educated and worked to build a career before stopping stay at home teach their daughters:

  • There is a well disguised but nonetheless real societal pressure on women to conform to ideas of gender roles that in your teens and twenties you merrily imagine are old fashioned and no longer prevalent
- This is structurally embedded, even as you climb the ladder as a woman you will be subtly sliding back compared to your male peers.
  • You'll barely notice it until you face the idea of wanting one of your child's parents to stay at home beyond maternity leave and the numbers just stack up to mean it is you stopping work that makes most financial sense. Even though you and your partner started out at more or less the same time and on the same rung of the ladder, you'll think maybe it's just a quirk of your relationship until you look round and realise the same is true for virtually every couple you know.
- However hard you tell yourself that the guilt is unjustified and the creation of a patriarchal media - you still bloody feel it, in a way your partner can only give lip service to. Not because he doesn't love the kids every inch as much as you but because somehow he was brought up to expect not to be at home for their every tumble and to let someone else take care of them while he worked. - Find a vocation - not just a career, something you actually love doing because that is what you need to be able to cling onto the career ladder in the first few years - a pull from work that is so strong that you can resist the siren call of 'quit and stay at home', because without that any rational decision will likely draw you to SAH because it would be easier, the kids would be happier, it might even be cheaper.

Sorry for the rant - touching a bit of a nerve this week.

Ubik1 · 19/05/2014 21:39

Your DD see you at home and either think they won't do that in a million yrs if they have children or alternatively see you as a non working parent lecturing them on the benefits of working.

I think children just see their mummy in whatever shape or form she presents herself, working , unwell, happy, sad - children don't think 'she should have..' they just accept what is given.

As they get older they may their own opinions on 'choices' made - but that understanding will be nuanced and generous because they love you. You are their mother whether you work or not.

handcream · 19/05/2014 21:42

Actually I disagree. You cannot tell your children to get an education and become independent when you are relying on someone else to support you whether that be another person or the government

handcream · 19/05/2014 21:45

A two year old maybe, a 14 yr old will have a different view which I suspect is why women having children very young will have DD's who often do the same

Ubik1 · 19/05/2014 21:48

I don't think 'lecturing' children gets you anywhere. Giving them a positive approach to learning and socialising is a great start.

Thus can happen at home it in a childcare setting. Children see many significant people in their lives working. For us work is simply a fact of life rather than some higher calling which requires lectures and role models etc

morethanpotatoprints · 19/05/2014 21:49

I think if you are happy with your decisions you shouldn't feel the need to justify anything.
I'm not going to tell my dc to do anything, its up to them what they decide to do.
Some children will follow the path modelled by their parents, others won't.
As long as they feel well loved and cared for I don't think they will be too bothered how we chose to live.

HappyMummyOfOne · 19/05/2014 21:50

Agree Handcream, bit pot kettle black to tell your children they need to work to support themselves as adults and that education is a key factor in their future job prospects when another adult/taxpayers are paying for your every need as you have opted out of working.

Ubik1 · 19/05/2014 21:55

when another adult/taxpayers are paying for your every need as you have opted out of working.

Are you a feminist?

morethanpotatoprints · 19/05/2014 21:56

Handcream

Unless you are a very high earner you would be in the same position as a sahm if your dh left you, of course you would.
There are the same bills to pay whoever you are.
As a worker you would continue to work I imagine, for some it would make financial sense to take benefits.
A sahm would either work or receive benefits, exactly the same.
Some wohm have savings some sahm have savings, some don't.
There really is no difference.

handcream · 19/05/2014 21:58

They won't believe you either. If they see you doing one thing and suggesting/encouraging another way how does that work?

HappyMummyOfOne · 19/05/2014 22:00

PMSL that a SAHM would be in the same position as a WOHM in the event of a split/death. SAHMs cant just walk into a job and would have to rely on the state whilst they attempted to find work. A WOHM would have her salary to provide for herself and children. There is a huge difference.

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 19/05/2014 22:01

I also think that human nature requires a drive.

What are we offering our daughters at the end of the sentence 'work hard at school so that....'?

...so that you have a bank of really great knowledge and understanding to reflect on every day (as you change nappies)?
...so that you can get an interesting job, travel the world and meet lots of clever people (whilst feeling horribly guilty that you aren't with your children)?
...so that you can earn lots of money to buy pretty handbags and get a manicure every week?
...so that you never have to stay with a man you no longer love / who has treated you badly / had an affair because you can't afford not to?

I don't know what the right answer to that is but I don't expect many children will be motivated by 'learn for the love of learning' - for many that comes a lot later than they need to start learning. Although I was always a swot who genuinely did love finding stuff out I know there weren't many like me.

Atbeckandcall · 19/05/2014 22:04

Sorry, maybe it's because I'm a SAHM and clearly uneducated. Are you comparing SAHP to people on benefits? I really have had an education on this thread.

handcream · 19/05/2014 22:04

Of course there is a difference. Earning your own money allows more money into the family pot. So are you suggesting that you can either work or claim benefits? Benefits are for the most vulnerable, not people who have chosen not to work and then find themselves unemployable because they have left the workplace

morethanpotatoprints · 19/05/2014 22:07

HappyMummy

Of course a sahm could get a job as easily as anybody else, in fact it would probably be a lot easier as they wouldn't be confined to certain job roles and career to provide the standard of life they were accustomed to.
Most wohm would be well screwed without their dhs income, have to sell the house, maybe take dc out of private school etc.
No difference at all.

Lottiedoubtie · 19/05/2014 22:09

SAHMs cant just walk into a job and would have to rely on the state whilst they attempted to find work

Or a life insurance policy? Or savings? It's not as black and white as 'ohh man has died, must claim benefits'

morethanpotatoprints · 19/05/2014 22:12

handcream

In your experience, earning your own money allows more money into the family pot. Every situation is different and my point is you can't generalise.
The poster up thread who claimed sahms were foolish to not work because if disaster struck would be destitute without their dh income is wrong in some cases, that's all.
I know several women who would lose the lot if they divorced and they work.

Atbeckandcall · 19/05/2014 22:12

You seem very money motivated handcream, nothing wrong with that but I'm sure that for some SAHP it isn't about that. Besides, I did my contributing to the money pot before we had dd and worked my backside off in a job I really enjoyed which had a crap salary btw so if I did go back to work full time now I wouldn't really be bringing in any more than I be earning, we don't claim benefits either fwiw.

HercShipwright · 19/05/2014 22:12

Of course a sahm could get a job as easily as anybody else

Some might. Many couldn't. Especially those with little employment experience.

Most wohm would be well screwed without their dhs income

Some might be. Many wouldn't be. And at least they'd have a job already, not be faced with having to find a job.

HappyMummyOfOne · 19/05/2014 22:12

Yes of course, with no recent work experience employers will be climbing over themselves to employ them Hmm

I doubt most WOHMs have children in private schools or mansions and given they already have an income would be far less screwed than an unemployed person that has been home for years.

Owllady · 19/05/2014 22:13

I get paid £63.15 in carers allowance every week
, nothing else, no child benefit either or anything else. If I died my husband would have to give up work to care anyway. If he dies I get 300k plus… in the case of death, he would be much more worse off financially

I do hope this helps