Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

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I have a few friends who, because their DHs are high (6 figure) earners, are able to be SAHMs, and have no intention of ever returning to work. These women are all at least degree educated and previously had successful careers.

I just wonder, in such a situation, how a long term SAHM encourages her DD to realise her academic/career potential, if the example she sets is that her education is only a short term requirement until she meets a high earning man?

I'm not trying to start a bun fight, I'm genuinely interested. My own mother is university educated, and has always worked in some capacity, successfully managing her own businesses with being the main carer, and encouraged me to be financially independent.

Personally, I feel I have invested too many years, and too much money, in my education and career to give it up forever after only 10-15 years. I like to think I am setting a good example to my DD that career and family are not mutually exclusive.

So how does a long term SAHM reconcile this? Am I thinking too simplistically?

As Greene and others point out, many, many children look at their own parents example and are ao put off they vow to do the opposite. I'm a post grad educated SAHM - just starting to do more paid work now the youngest is 3, but part yime around the kids. My mother worked full time in a professional job, as did my father. My mother was endlessly resentful that she felt even the smallish amount of time she took "off" to have kids meant she had "fallen behind" my father, and endlessly frazzled and stressed throughout my childhood. Then, once all her children left home, she went part time, then took early retirement to do more gardening. Her choice but I was always a bit about the way around she did it, esp as it didn't seem to make her happy AND we didn't need the money...

The flipside of having to justify working to a child... as the child of a working mum I really appreciated from a young age that she wasn't just working for the money and it fostered a real respect for her. It may have helped that she was in a very obviously 'community based' career which I could understand as a child?

It's interesting because the "my daddy the hero" narrative is never seen as a problem for kids, whereas "mummy goes to work" is seen as automatically worrying and upsetting because of childcare- it doesn't have to be like that.

Looking back I can see my mum was very astute with childcare (ours was great, educationally and emotionally) and working hours to minimise impact back in the days before flexi time!

What is has done is make me challenge the assumption that every mother deep down wants to be a SAHM forever. Some (for example my consultant at hospital who deals with high risk pregnancies and is herself the mother of twins) are probably driven on in their careers because of their experiences as mothers.
For others, motherhood is in itself a vocation.
Neither is 'wrong'.

'It's not 'real' debt and doesn't materially affect your life.'

Til you try to get a mortgage

I don't think any of my daughters are going to look at what I do - nightshift in a call centre - and decide they want to follow in my footsteps.

I think they'll look at what interests them, make decisions

And when it comes to having children, they will make the much vaunted 'choice' about working or not. This choice is talked about alot in feminism and it ALWAYS ignores the fact that for the majority of women there is no choice at all.

This 'choice' is generally open to some women, but many, many others find themselves either not working due to cost of childcare, or working because they cannot afford to lose pay scale, pension etc

As far as I am aware it doesn't count against you in the mortgage stakes in the way 'normal' debt does. It is also written off at retirement age. The government forecasts that 45% of debt will never be repaid, and I'd almost bet the farm that in reality that figure will be much higher.

In life lots of people don't have the luxury of all of these choices. The problem comes in when the man is 'choosing' meaning the woman cannot.

If you don't earn enough to pay back your student loans then I'm not sure you'll earn enough for a mortgage either, given the cost of houses. I can't imagine planning to borrow a large amount of money in order to study for a degree with no intention of working afterward, but then I can't imagine planning not to work either.

I've pretty much always worked, but my dh has had two fairly long spells of being a SAHD, the second when our children were old enough to be thinking about 'what they might do when they grow up'. ds swung between wanting to be a self made trillionaire and saying he'd like to be a kept man. I do think the latter ambition was influenced by his dad being around all day, and it was one of the reasons I really encouraged dh to go back to work, lovely though it was to have everything done for me.

I am one of the women you're addressing. My DH earns a good salary. We can afford for me to SAH. I am educated to degree level and used to earn good money before we had DC, although that had little do with my degree, which was in an interesting, but useless subject. And actually I don't think it matters whether you have DDs or DSs, you need to set an example as a parent in many different areas of life, not just in working or not.

However, I think raising the next generation well IS an extremely worthy job - certainly more worthwhile than the job I used to do in finance. I didn't have DC so I could get someone else on a minimum wage to raise them on my behalf while I went off to do something else. I could have gone back to work when my first DC was a baby, but its my opinion that he's worth staying at home for and raising properly and I'm fortunate enough that a) we can afford for me to do this, and b) my DH agrees with me. Many people who work in childcare don't speak properly. They say things like 'You was' and 'We was' and 'I done'. If I want to raise eloquent DC who will have choices in life, I feel like they're better off at home with me. If that means to some other people think that I'm setting 'a bad example' by not working, I really don't care.

In life lots of people don't have the luxury of all of these choices. The problem comes in when the man is 'choosing' meaning the woman cannot.

Yep, on the sharp end of this one at the moment. Society doesn't even view it as a choice but the norm!

Society is not geared up for female breadwinners IMO, nor to men who want to be SAHD (DH has always wanted this- his dad worked shifts and he was the one he always saw after work cooking dinner etc' so to him it's a fond memory).
OK, on paper it's fine: but having to explain (with raised eyebrows) that you'll be coming back off maternity full-time and DH (none of their business - doubt they'd ask a man this) is the one who will be SAH or part time really makes you feel like an utter freak.
Mind you, I think DH has had more social hostility and being made to feel weird than me. :( Even a homophobic type comment... which goes to show how strange and mixed up with other prejudices these stereotypes are.

If you don't earn enough to pay back your student loans then I'm not sure you'll earn enough for a mortgage either, given the cost of houses. I can't imagine planning to borrow a large amount of money in order to study for a degree with no intention of working afterward, but then I can't imagine planning not to work either.

Just to clarify. I work, I have a mortgage and I pay an amount each month to the student loan company.

It's touch and go whether I will pay all of my loan off, if I had a 'new style' massive loan, I very much doubt that I would.

If in the future I decide to SAH that will be because I have the luxury of choice, and will not be defined by either my student loan or my desire not to 'waste' my education.

As if raising your family could ever be a waste of anything.

Squizita I have received those looks too!!

Juneau you sound like a terrible snob. And using emotive language like 'worth staying at home for' is really not nice on a thread like this. You admit you can only do this because of your rich dh.

I am a lazy arsed sahm, and for what it's worth, dd15 is very focused, studying hard and know what she wants to do when she leaves school. Ds12 on the other hand is very able, but lazy and I worry more about his future. So your theory doesn't work in our house.

"My mum was a SAHM until I left school. I went to uni and got a job. It never occurred to me that I shouldn't/couldn't just because mum was at home."

Yep, this.

I think being educated is a red herring too. Waste of money if you never pay back your student loans but thats another topic.

Its only possible to choose not to work by either finding a high earning partner or living off state benefits (be it full benefits or top ups). Neither which i'd encourage either a DD or DS to do.

We've always wanted to teach DS that its perfectly possible to work and parent hand in hand and that all adults should share bills. Hopefully he'll look for a partner with the same beliefs he has grown up with.

Sadly, the number of women on here who admit salary is a factor in the man they look for, its a case that men get the raw deal in a lot of relationshis purely as they were born male.

Juneau

For the record, you don't sound snobby to me and we aret theothe end of the pectrum, very low income nd sahm.
I don' thin pople relise you on' need a hih income to have a sahp, you cut yu cloth acordingly.

HappyMummy I have never seen anyone on here say salary is a factor in their choice of male partner - where has that come from? [Hmm]

How long do you continue calling yourself a SAHM once the children have left home? Presumably you go from being a SAHM to a housewife.

I do think it is quite rare to be a housewife these days. Most women I know have taken up some sort of employment as the children get older. The number of women who have children and never work again must be pretty teeny, so it is hardly a huge issue, I think. Even women with mega wealthy husbands seem to have some sort of vanity business, so they at least have a tendy job to talk about.

How long do you continue calling yourself a SAHM once the children have left home? Presumably you go from being a SAHM to a housewife.

Eh? Presumably you find work long before then.

Drinkingtea, there was a long thread on here within the last few months and a fair few admitted that they picked their partner for their earning potential. Cant remember the thread title to search, it wa depressing reading for any male out their.

I'm a snob about proper spoken English - yes - and I value it as a tool that enables people to have choices in life. If you speak poorly you will be forever excluded from many of the well-paid jobs. So IMO making sure that my DC learn to speak properly is a priority.

Hear hear juneau

HappyummyOfOne

I disagree, know lots of people who work, pay tax have low income and receive no benefit of any kind.
We ourselves did ths for years before tax credits came into existence.
No doubt we will do it again when they are no longer.
Its not what you earn but what you spend.
I learnt from Mr McCawber

Interesting question. I have always worked FT. I'm the sort of high earner that is mentioned in the OP. My DH no longer works full time although he did until after DC3 was born. He took an early retirement package when it was offered because it was becoming increasingly difficult to juggle the needs of our kids (who all do extensive extra curricular stuff - and we don't live in London we live somewhere ridiculous, so any after school activity necessarily involves taxi of mum and dad) with the fact that we were both doing jobs that could have longish hours, and my job involves a lot of international travel. Bizarrely it was easier when they were little, by the time DC3 started primary school it was increasingly difficult. So we made that decision. People don't ask whether DH is setting DS a bad example. They don't assume I'm setting the DDs a good example.

I actually think that education is a Good Thing in and of itself, regardless of any financial reward it may lead to. So there's that. But I also feel very strongly that SAHM of DSs need to be very careful about the messages they give to their sons, not so much their daughters, about the possibilities for womens' roles in society. So many men grow up thinking that women are second best in the achievement and employment stakes, and that if a sacrifice (of a career) has to be made, it should naturally be the woman who makes it. That there are such things as 'womens' jobs' and 'mens' jobs' and that womens' careers are both less lucrative and less valuable than mens'. Comments such as 'I didn't have children so that I could get someone else to raise them on my behalf' are inflammatory, rude and generally indicative of a person who is justifying what was perhaps not a choice (you don't generally get the higher earner saying things like that).

I don't really care who stays at home, or if anyone stays at home. I do care that the next generation - the people with whom my DDs may end up working - are not brought up to think that a womans' place is automatically in the home.

I know many, many families where both parents earn relatively low incomes: usually mum works evenings, dad works days or vice versa.

I gave two degrees, one is a distinction, many colleagues are well educated.

We often sit at work at the weekend talking about how our children miss us or constantly ask why we have work. The answer is that we need the money.

Ok, I've just skimmed the thread.

I'm sick to fucking death of how sahm's are berated, undervalued and stereotyped.

I can not fucking afford two sets of childcare. I like being at home with my dc. Being with them while they're small is what dh and I have chosen to be best of us as a family.

Being a sahm does not mean I don't value education, financial independence (for women especially) and does not mean I'm a 'lazy slacker' and submissive. I'm none of those things. Infact, I'm a great advocate of feminism and so is my dh.

People assume too much.

Rant over.

me being at home with them while they're small

Beepin if you can't afford two sets of childcare, then that's what you should tell your kids (also, obviously, that you like them! ). Then if you have DDs they can choose for themselves if they want to follow the sort of career path that might mean they can't afford childcare and thus have to stop work (which is fine, and certainly as valid a choice as someone doing a job they don't love just to earn money. Probably more valid). What would be un constructive would be letting your kids get the idea that staying at home is what women should do. women can do anything they want, if they are lucky enough to be in a position to have choices.

Like I said - it's none of my business, and I don't care, what choices people make. I just hope that the next generation will understand that people should have choice and that staying home isn't what women should do just because they are women.