Blurred lines: the new battle of the sexes

[grimbletart]

BBC 2 tomorrow night (Thurs) 9.30pm

Trailer...Kirsty Wark explores examples of how women are assailed in public life. She asks if there is a new culture in which it is acceptable to refer to women in an offensive way.

Looking forward to this but hope they don't spend 50% of the programme featuring people who thinks it's fine to abuse women online, in the name of 'balance'.

And if the word 'banter' (or worse, 'bants') get used, the whole of the UK will hear me cringe

I saw this a few days ago, should be interesting viewing. I'll have to record it though, as I'm out tomorrow evening.

I want to watch, but am so scared I will be left feeling worse than ever. I know what goes on, but the way they tackle it is bound to leave me feeling like "what's the point...?" Especially as there will be so many men (and women) who will say "what are they moaning about - it is just a bit of fun". i don't know if my blood pressure can stand it.

I'll be watching this. I really hope that online threats of rape and murder are taken more seriously than they have been up till now. Laurie Penny wrote a good piece about this a couple of years ago. A search for "a woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet" will pull it up, and might even include a couple of threads on here.

I'm going to watch it with DH so I hope it is good. He gets it, but doesn't "get" it. IYSWIM, which you probably don't because I am being clear as mud.

I'm glad this is being tackled on television but I am feeling twitchy about how well it will be done.

Even the fact that it is a programme is a bit - you wouldn't see a programme 'let's debate whether online racism is a bad thing', would you?

Thanks for posting about this, will definitely be watching.

Unless I have misunderstood the premise, I think it is more has the internet made misogyny seem socially acceptable, not whether misogyny is acceptable.

And personally I think the internet while an amazing thing has somehow completely fucked women. Maybe it's the porn side, I'm not sure. But I look at how the western world has changed towards homosexuality in just a couple of generations and things are so much better. Racism etc. And yes, I am white and straight so looking at it form a privileged point of you, I totally admit...but especially in the states (I'm American) the laws are starting to change and reflect the attitudes that discrimination toward minority groups shouldn't and won't be tolerated... All the while taking more rights away from women, steadily going back on rights such as abortion, refusing laws that would deal with DV, give women equal pay for equal work... blatantly disregarding women who have been raped and not even attempting to prosecute their cases. Allowing Christian hospitals to refuse medically necessary abortions to women who can die without them. Prosecuting women for miscarriages.

Things aren't quite there in the UK but NI still refuses women abortions. Rape cases are still not taken seriously. Girls and women are sexualised so much more and in such a degrading way with than in the states. We are seen as prudes, but actually the British are only being "liberal" about the sexualisation of women. They are certainly not objectifying men even a tiny percentage the way the women are. The whole world seems to be saying feminism, been there done that. Now go back to the kitchen.

Sorry for rant kind of off topic there. But to the point, yes, I think the internet had made misogyny fashionable again!

I am just worried that that is the direction in which it may go.

I share your fed-up-ness. But actually I think the internet has been brilliant for women because it has allowed us to see exactly how much so many men hate us. We can use it as something that spurs us on.

I'm worried it's not going to address the nature of the misogyny i.e. male violence and the gendered nature of the perpetrators.

I agree FairPhyllis about the Internet, it's sheer honesty and unabridged content has held up a mirror to sociey and demonstrated just how nasty it can be. I think it's because it's so easy to be anonymous on fora like this and social media, it's also really simple to set up your own website/blog to air your views no matter how bigotted or repugnant. The ultimate democatisation of communication I suppose.

Of course the flipside is that it means those who are victimised are a lot more aware of this, the ignorance of their position is lessened dramatically and the capacity to try and implement change is heightened by using the same weopan as the oppressor - The internet.

Fascinating times we live in...

Just checking you've all seen Kirsty's blog post ?

Need to remember to watch it - presumably it'll be on iplayer?

KW was talking about the programme on Woman's Hour R4 yesterday. Sound like it should be required viewing for all parents and their teens.

Marking place. Watching now

Watching now. Really interesting.

Found this very interesting. I have become increasingly concerned about this type of thing especially in the younger generation who because it is so common has become the norm.

I think it was very well done. The feedback loop section was particularly interesting/ depressing.

She is incredibly sharp. I'm glad it was her doing it and not someone who would tolerate frothy or shallow answers.

Most of it was ,sadly, quite familiar if you are already interested in feminism and internet culture but it was a great concise show for young people those who haven't looked into it too much before. I've already seen some teachers tweeting that they are going to show it to their classes.

I have never heard of the consent campaign set up by the schoolgirls. Brilliant initiative; gives you some hope

Showing this to all school children would be a great idea

I have never heard of the consent campaign set up by the schoolgirls.

No, I hadn't, either. I agree it's great.

So, how as it? I have recorded it, not watched it yet. Was the fear and pessimism justified? I'd be surprised if a journalist as good as Wark didn't get to the heart of the matter.

Well I've only watched part of it but within the first minute she named men as the main perpetrators so my skepticism was unfounded I'm very pleased to say

Sadly though, the programme as a whole made me feel sad and a bit sick. Did you see those lads responding to the rape video at the end? I sometimes feel like we are fighting a losing battle though .

I am ashamed to admit that there are only a select few people I trust in RL to discuss feminism.

I work in a profession that is very conservative and elitist and the culture is to adhere to the status quo. I see low level sexism every day from intelligent people who don't even realise they're doing it. It is no surprise therefore the level things reach with young impressionable people.

I just wish I knew how to educate people about gender equality, because it seems no one who isn't a woman, and only a minority of women at that, want to educate themselves about it.

I'm watching this now. It's so saddening.

I totally agree with ImSoOverIt. I also feel like we're fighting a losing battle.