Why is stripping / prostitution seen as empowering for women...

[Callani]

...when no other job is?

I've been thinking about the language used by advocates for prostitution and strip clubs etc and this really bothers me.

Punters say that women (and the occasional male stripper / prostitute) have the power in the relationship because they're getting cash - that by receiving money for what they're doing empowers them and takes the power away from the men, but it's bull isn't it?

I mean, when I buy meat at the butchers I don't think "Ah that's so nice that I've empowered him" in fact, I can't think of a single instance where I've felt that I've given someone power by buying a product or service from them. If anything, the butcher is reliant on my continuing custom and, if I was a dick, I could use that to my advantage.

Similarly, I like getting paid for my work but I don't find it empowering and I certainly don't have the power in this relationship - if I wanted to have an effect on my employer I'd have to get unionised and there'd still be no guarantee of things going my way.

Can anyone think of a non sexwork related example where it is empowering to be on the receiving end of money rather than the giving end? I'd be genuinely interested if someone could point out a flaw in my argument.

" at the other end, mostly older conservative feminists, imagine society as so deeply 'run, controlled and legitimised by men' they would deny women owning agency even as the seek to empower them to have it."

Goodness, you really do need to do the reading don't you, before you come on feminist threads lecturing feminists about it.

Dadwashere interesting as your post is, I see it as solely subjective.
Buffy's response to you is exactly how I feel about it.

I'm a stripper,not a prostitute but I know prostitutes. I'm lucky enough to have the respect of my peers and the respect for myself to not assume I deserve less respect because of how I choose to earn money.

In answer to the original question of this thread, I suppose the 'empowering' theory is something put there to oppose those who view such employment as the opposite of such, as degrading, patriarchal, shameful. I'm not as well-read on sex-work focused feminism as I would like to be (my first degree focused on it but my knowledge is somewhat dated, now), but that is what I deem it as.

As for the socialising of women indoctrinating such with focus on their looks-sad but true.
For me personally, this was a bit of an anomaly. I was shamed a little for not looking a certain way, as a youngster, but also it was emphasised that it wasn't important, and I didn't much care either way, for a lot of the time.

I was late in discovering what looks meant and why they were 'important'.

My looks were never a reason for my deciding to use them to earn money, they were more significant in a happy realisation-I decided I wanted to earn as much money as I could whilst sacrificing as little time as possible, and then realised slowly, that I could use my looks for that.

If It's worth mentioning even just in relation to the above, in the realm of the stripclub, personality sells significantly more than looks.

Dadwashere interesting as your post is, I see it as solely subjective.

Pretty much all opinions on feminism are subjective I would think, like anything that is not a physical sciences subject. I can think of one feminist forum of 30K+ subscribers and four or five times as many casual posters where this thread would never have reached the point where stubbornstains could express it made her feel like shit. Mods would have stamped on it the moment they saw it and would have banished the opening poster, permanently if they were a new account with little post history, because they would have dismissed it as an anti-choice advocate trying to sneak a leg in just to stir the pot. Stubbornstains would be lauded there. That is not a judgement on what is or is not wrong, but it is an accurate assessment. Different feminist ideologues are welcomed in different feminist forums and mumsnet is simply not a haunt of choice feminism. That said I am not a particular fan of it either as it can come across as self deluded, where personal choice is so sacrosanct as to be untouchable in any circumstance.