Why is stripping / prostitution seen as empowering for women...

[Callani]

...when no other job is?

I've been thinking about the language used by advocates for prostitution and strip clubs etc and this really bothers me.

Punters say that women (and the occasional male stripper / prostitute) have the power in the relationship because they're getting cash - that by receiving money for what they're doing empowers them and takes the power away from the men, but it's bull isn't it?

I mean, when I buy meat at the butchers I don't think "Ah that's so nice that I've empowered him" in fact, I can't think of a single instance where I've felt that I've given someone power by buying a product or service from them. If anything, the butcher is reliant on my continuing custom and, if I was a dick, I could use that to my advantage.

Similarly, I like getting paid for my work but I don't find it empowering and I certainly don't have the power in this relationship - if I wanted to have an effect on my employer I'd have to get unionised and there'd still be no guarantee of things going my way.

Can anyone think of a non sexwork related example where it is empowering to be on the receiving end of money rather than the giving end? I'd be genuinely interested if someone could point out a flaw in my argument.

It is bull.

'Empowerment' has become a lazy word to describe the kind of buzz you get when you make yourself vulnerable before an audience, perform an activity that is designed to please that audience, and receive from it the acclaim you hoped for (and, perhaps, a wage for doing so). It's used ad nauseam in X Factor, etc.

The buzz is real and can be gratifying and encouraging. But it's not what I understand by empowerment.

LOL at empowering the butcher.

Empowerment is for people who have no right to aspire to actual power.

That's why it's sold so heavily to women and minority groups.

Agreed. Started with the spice girls. Notice they had no power as a group originally. All the men did. They only got power later.

It's nearly a bad a phrase as 'journey'.

Wish someone would point it out to rhianna....

'Empowerment' is the most misused word and 'it's my choice' is the most misused phrase IMO nowadays.

No job is empowering, its how you feel about the job you do that makes it either empowering or destructive to you. Sometimes its both at the same time but for most people its probably the money they earn that is empowering, not the job itself. The wider implications of your job to the society around you are another thing entirely. People LOL at the idea of butcher empowerment- but thats simply because the profession is mundane in context. If society were near exclusively vegan instead of liking their chops and bacon then 'butcher 'would be elevated to an entirely different level of socio-philosophical-political level of thought.

Can you member the women on www.channel4.com/programmes/sex-lies-rinsing-guys/episode-guide claiming they were!

Though the guy is getting a sexual kick out of it and you are doing a disservice to women in general, so how it is empowering I dont know!?

Found it - www.dailymotion.com/video/xsy6vp_sex-lies-and-rinsing-guys_shortfilms

So just seen my neighbour and asked her why she feels it is necessary as a stripper to use the word empowerment. I have removed the swear words.

As a stripper you use the terms like empowerment simply because it is one of the few jobs where you get personal attacks by other women based on a subjective opinion. The butcher doesn't get abuse online from "feminists", this is about my personal choice about what I do with my body.

I would say she said several other things but to be honest the one statement covers what she meant. If you don't like the words then perhaps aggressive behaviour against strippers should be avoided.

Empowerment is for people who have no right to aspire to actual power

Thank you AskBasil, I think this summarises the linguistics quite nicely and it's made sense in my head now.

Sausage, I kind of understand what your neighbour is saying - she uses the fact that stripping feels empowering to defend herself against people who say that it's not good for her.

But I would say there is a big difference between feeling powerful and being powerful.

sausage: That's not empowerment. It is, at best, a defensive reiteration of her autonomy as the seller of her own labour. But that's not a transgressive posture in our culture, not even for young women. She is saying nothing at all.

Her comment is telling in other ways, though. Firstly, the grammar of "empower-ment" and "empower-ing" tell us that she — like many young women — sees power as something she does not yet possess, is only in the process of acquiring. I bet most young men feel pretty empowered already because patriarchy, which is why they don't need to take their clothes off in front of strangers to feel good about themselves.

And then there's the question of validation. Why does she care what other women think? Why does she need other people's approval? The butcher doesn't. She has chosen gendered work where her labour is validated by the men who pay to look at her body. Why should she expect validation from other women, too? The butcher doesn't get a pat on the back from vegetarians.

Strippers know that the work they do is offensive to some people. They go ahead and do it anyway. I don't judge them as individuals because I know and, to some degree, sympathise with the circumstances in which they made that choice. But when they pretend or delude themselves that such a choice is "empowerment", is some kind of self-realisation, I have no regrets about calling them out on it.

I always think when I hear the word 'empowered':

No, you have no more power than you did before the thing that supposedly 'empowered' you, namely hardly any. What you probably mean is 'validated'. People liked what you did, so you feel validated.

I empower my young children by giving them limited choices to decide things that don't matter (red socks or blue socks) so that they feel they are at least deciding something. There's no real power there. Strippers and such strike me as being in fundamentally the same position: they have a very limited choice, to engage in an activity or not, but no actual power. They certainly do not have power over anyone else, the hypnotic effect of jiggly boobs on men notwithstanding.

It's a good point given what wording people who advocate strip clubs (I cannot comment on prostitution so much) use.

I have to say though,in thirteen years of working as a stripper, never once have I heard a colleague utter the words 'I feel empowered', when discussing their reasons for doing it as an occupation. I was blissfully unaware of this 'opinion' for many years.

Genuinely would like to know why the occupation isn't my choice. I don't view it as being anybody else's.

Can real power be given, as opposed to taken or acquired? I wonder.

Would a man who's making his living as a Butler in the Buff blather on about feeling empowered? I think not.

Although 'powering' women would have a whole different raft of unfortunate connotations.

Well, I worked as a stripper for several years. It's one of many, many, many weird and wonderful jobs I did when I was younger. It suited me because it involved a lot of autonomy (the kind of stripping I was doing, that is, which involved a lot of moving around London).

I would never have used the phrase "empowered", although I suppose that the high wage for relatively few hours of work was empowering in that it enabled me to study for my degree at the same time.

However, reading threads like this, which would seem to imply that I was stupid, naive, a victim AND an enemy of the rest of womankind to choose a job that suited me at the time, make me feel like shit. And are distinctly disempowering.

makes me feel like shit. Is distinctly disempowering.

I've no desire to make you as an individual feel bad, stubborn. But nor am I going to suppress my view that stripping and the culture that surrounds it is profoundly damaging to women as a group.