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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

privilege and prostitution

282 replies

ezinma · 26/03/2014 15:15

Appearing in my social media today is one of those sharp and sassy thoughts for the day that I’m invited to approve by sharing. Where better to share it than here:

So, you are against prostitution. But you're an attractive person with a boyfriend. Who I assume you have sex with. That gives you privilege. Some people aren't so lucky. The only way they can get laid is by paying for it. Why do you think you have the right to experience one of life's fundamental experiences and others don't?

It’s from tumblr so we ought to make some allowances. Let’s, if we may, overlook the fact that I am a middle-aged frump with a civil partner; the debatable contention that sex, in and of itself, is one of life’s fundamental experiences; the erasure of women who aren’t “lucky” enough to have a boyfriend and whose right to A Fundamental Experience presumably requires them to seduce a partner using skills that cannot be withdrawn from a bank machine; and the regrettable (though now unavoidable) misuse of ‘privilege’ to refer to any old scenario where one group of people has a little bit more access to something than another group does. (Have I missed anything?)

What remains is the daring suggestion that a woman might be against prostitution because she is attractive. Since it's already well established that we fat old frumps are against prostitution — no glamorous john would waste his beer money on buying our flabby arses, and we are bitter about it! — then I’m left with only one conclusion: a woman’s attractiveness has no influence on her opinions about prostitution.

A lightbulb moment for me. Thanks, tumblr. Hmm

OP posts:
gilogowu · 27/03/2014 19:18

If you know better than them then perhaps you could tell us what they do want

CaptChaos · 27/03/2014 19:18

Safety from 'men' like you is probably fairly high on their list of wants.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 27/03/2014 19:19

I can't tell you that - they are all individuals. However, they don't want sex with you, bro, or you wouldn't have to pay them.

itsbetterthanabox · 27/03/2014 19:19

Obviously not. A victim can be as addicted or out of their face as one can be that doesn't give anyone the right to abuse and use their body. We should help people who suffer from addiction of course but that doesn't negate the actions of the men who use these addicted women's bodies.

FloraFox · 27/03/2014 19:20

Do you ask them to do things you wouldn't ask a real woman?

Blistory · 27/03/2014 19:20

Why don't you get it ?

It's not drugs that are the problem, it's people like you. Prostitution is caused entirely by men thinking they have a right to women's bodies. Which is what results when you have a society that sees women as somehow lesser.

If you're so concerned for these vulnerable women and their children, how about just giving them the £20 and not putting your penis in her ?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 27/03/2014 19:20

So, we again come back to that question. Why do men like you, gilo, want sex with women who don't want to have sex with you?

It's never, ever answered.

gilogowu · 27/03/2014 19:22

"Do you ask them to do things you wouldn't ask a real woman?"

Do you not see prostitutes as "real" women?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 27/03/2014 19:23

No - she's asking if that how you feel. It's something that comes up when punters are interviewed.

gilogowu · 27/03/2014 19:23

@Sab why not ask someone who really has paid for sex?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 27/03/2014 19:26

I'm asking you, gilo. I have asked the self-confessed punters on threads - they don't answer either.

But remember: [weseeyou] We know who you are. Your concern is not for the women - it is for your right to fuck them. Or your right to profit from them.

CaptChaos · 27/03/2014 19:27

We are asking someone who has paid for sex. Or at least paid for an approximation of sex that normal people wouldn't recognise as that.

FloraFox · 27/03/2014 19:27

I am asking someone who has paid for sex. It is a common response when punters are asked why try pay for sex that it is because they want them to do things they wouldn't ask a real woman to do. This is how they describe it.
If that's not your reason, do you think it is acceptable for men to do this?

FloraFox · 27/03/2014 19:33

gilo how would you feel if you had sex with a prostitute and she got pregnant with your child?

JuliaScurr · 27/03/2014 19:43

it's debatable whether prostitutes will be harmed by the Swedish model. Hopefully they won't. But why are existing current prostitutes given more weight than anyone else? Really, why?

BriarRainbowshimmer · 27/03/2014 19:47

What, there are still punters coming here to puntersplain? Is MN that threatening?

JuliaScurr · 27/03/2014 19:49

and yes, it is quite probable that children are damaged by living around prostitution, so I would not say it is always wrong to take them into care

CaptChaos · 27/03/2014 19:50

I just can't see how prostituted women will be harmed, or are harmed by the Nordic Model. I can see how punters, pimps, traffickers etc will be, but I really couldn't give a shit about them. The one woman who is trotted out as having been harmed by the pro-punter lobby by it wasn't. She was killed by her ex partner in a domestic dispute.

The pro-punter lobby also says that further legislation isn't needed, that we have enough. They say this because they fail to understand that new legislation supersedes old, and that having a separate and joined-up approach to criminalising punters, pimps and traffickers, while offering prostituted women education and help to leave the life, social work, health care and other benefits can only be of benefit to those women. Let's face it though, only people with a vested interest in keeping women in prostitution would be against the Nordic Model.

gilogowu · 27/03/2014 19:57

"I just can't see how prostituted women will be harmed, or are harmed by the Nordic Model."

So there's no harm in taking their home off them? Even if they own it?

gilogowu · 27/03/2014 19:59

Prostitutes don't have homes they own taken off them in countries where it is legal. So why would they support criminalization???

FloraFox · 27/03/2014 20:04

Taking homes off people is not part of the Nordic model. I know this is challenging stuff for you but do try.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 27/03/2014 20:04

I can see why privileged prostitutes/happy hookers would argue against the Nordic Model. After all, it tackles the demand - and directly affects their business.

But I cant see how it would make them less safe - and that's not borne out in that stats either. Murder of prostitutes has a much higher incidence in the Netherlands (legal) than in Sweden (purchase of sex illegal). What is more, they're murdered by punters - not by proponents of the Nordic model or feminists.

1 prostitute has been murdered in Sweden since the laws were introduced - and she was murdered by her abusive partner, who also stabbed a social worker. She was a victim of dv, not the Swedish sex laws. In the Netherlands, 127 prostitutes have been murdered by punters over the same time period.

gilogowu · 27/03/2014 20:07

"In the Netherlands, 127 prostitutes have been murdered "

This was before brothels were legalized.

FloraFox · 27/03/2014 20:07

Isn't it ironic that the punters use the "listen to sex workers" line when they have so many problems listening? It's not that surprising though. To buy a woman for sex, a woman who does not want to have sex with the man, the man must close his eyes and ears to her unwillingness. He must close his mind to the reality of what he is doing. He knows she is pretending (at best). It's not surprising then that he fails to understand what it means to actually listen, actually see, actually think.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 27/03/2014 20:07

Not according to the radio 4 prog on it.