"Cues" to give people to show them I'm not to be ignored!

[benid]

I didnt want to derail the thread about the work conference but I was Interested in what dusk said about "cues" to give out to avoid being overlooked/ignored.. Did you mean physical or verbal cues and do you have any effective ones you'd recommend? I have a small work function coming up where I'll be the only woman present. I tend to switch off/tune out from the desperate boring golf chat on these occasions, but it would certainly help my 'profile' if I engaged more. I do have stuff to say and can chat to the Menz confidently one-to-one but get bypassed in dinner-table chat iykwim. Any advice to help me advance the cause of women in my organisation by helping me to take a bigger part in the function ?

That is a great way of doing it Penguins

This is the cartoon you mean Hogwash. I've posted the link on FWR before but it is always worth repeating…

punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000eHEXGJ_wImQ

Interesting thread and lots of good ideas.

YY to never "play mummy". Never make the tea.

I had a work dinner once where I was the only woman there - lots of "ladies first" nonsense and I did call them out on it and thanks to this board I managed to be coherent about it too. They went a bit quiet.

Tangentially about golf, does anyone remember, in "the prime of Miss Jean Brodie", Brodie's girls play golf rather than tennis, because golf is an individual game. They were not about to be sheep, or something like that. May be a way to direct conversation away from golf? Unless you hate Jean Brodie more ...

"I did a talk last year about some research I'd done linked to a method that people were interested in. Afterwards, in the discussion session, several (male) delegates wanted to corner me to mansplain the method. That I'd just presented my research about. It was weird."

the arrogance!

Seriously, brilliant thread! I identify with so many of these behaviours (don't take a drink as "im not really here" type thing). I went to a very important (career progression wise) conference last year that my boss pushed for me togo on but in the end I only got onto because someone more senior droped out (my fault for not booking soon enough). Having taken someone elses place, and being surrounded by people more senior than me really made me feel like a second class citizen but that was MY feeling not based on the actions of anyone gthere.

Point being though that a man, even onr more junior tba me would have been l I kely to get stuck in.
I'm very good in formal environments. Can make my point in formal meetings and in lecture halls full of important people. Im dreadful at informal networking. Lack the social skills. I struggle to make small talk with my superiors.

Please understand my use of 'importnat' and 'superior' are tongue in cheek.

Ah, yes Buffy, I also keep emails regarding suggestions as on more than one occasion a male colleague has put forward my idea.

Back in the early 1990s I had a male secretary. T'was amusing/fascinating/instructive to see how that went down with the blokes. For many it was as if their brains had imploded. They just couldn't 'get' it. After all, it's against nature innit? (Especially when he made the coffee…..)

I work in a very male-dominated industry and had to conciously work on not being worried about how friendly, nice and charming I am.

Don't let people talk over you. If someone does that, say "I was not finished yet" in a loud clear voice. They usually won't do it again.

Don't be afraid to express your opinions. Avoid soft, apologetic expressions like 'I feel', 'sorry, but maybe we should also consider' etc. Especially ones like 'this is probably a stupid idea..', 'I don't really know that much about it but..' Notice that most men would never speak like that - if they have an opinion then this is stated like a fact.

Same in emails. I used to do the 'Why don't you consider this change' and 'I think it might be better if..'. which of course was read as suggestion that can be ignored. Then though that now, wait a minute - they are paying me for my professional opinion. My opinion is that yes, that would indeed be better. So now I simply tell people what I want changed. And it gets done.

Ah shit thats me out then :o

"Splaying out one's belongings in a space claiming mess of confusion on the table?"

That sounds like me everywhere I go. I consciously try not to do it.

To be boringly serious (again) I actually think that dominant behaviour, by women, which actually inconveniences others, is too high risk.
Men can do it and it makes them look Alpha.
women do it (take up more than their fair share of space, eat too much, talk too long) and it makes them look difficult and greedy.

So this is why it is such a tricky balancing act - you can't spread your stuff out all over the table as you''ll be "that messy, selfish woman" - but if you don't take your share of the table, you might look weak, but more to the point you won't have easy access to your notes in real time when you need them and will miss the chance to make your point.

it takes up so much fucking head space, all this crap, but it is so fucking easy to get wrong

Yes exactly so Dusty.

That's why I try not to do it - it just looks messy and disorganised, whereas if I were a man it would simply look like I had a right to be there.

Dusk, even