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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I support Page 3, who's with me?

628 replies

Beth9009 · 17/01/2014 12:10

This might not go down well, but I cannot accept the campaign to ban Page 3. Here's why:

There is nothing wrong with the naked female body. A woman posing with her breasts on show is not lewd nor is it harmful to children.

Hypocrisy - Page 3 is no different to male models posing shirtless in women's magazines.

Prudishness - People who claim that newspapers should be banned from showing topless women are no different to the Victorians or to people in conservative parts of the world who don't allow women to show bare legs. It's the same principle.

Market mechanisms - if there is a demand for something and a consenting adult willing to supply it, then who is the government to get in the way?

Freedom of choice - if you don't like it, don't buy the Sun!

OP posts:
Beth9009 · 17/01/2014 21:28

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17288577

'What may seem unremarkable for a woman to wear in London, New York, Dubai or Paris can be interpreted as offensive or even as a come-on in other cultures. In places such as Afghanistan, especially in rural areas such as Helmand'

'[on not walking into places crowded with men] I shared this advice with a Canadian colleague in the late 80s in Pakistan. She ignored it, perhaps believing she had to be in the midst of the action to do her job. She was so badly groped she had to return to the hotel'

Are those rape myths, people?

OP posts:
Beth9009 · 17/01/2014 21:28

PortofinoRevisited Fri 17-Jan-14 21:28:05
Buffy - you have posted some fabulous stuff on this thread. I am envisaging the lurkers seeing the strong feminist argument vs the racist, misogynist one.
_

I'm sorry, racist??? Excuse me?

OP posts:
PortofinoRevisited · 17/01/2014 21:30

And you got groped in Tunisia, and I got groped once in a nightclub in Dover.

Blistory · 17/01/2014 21:31

Ok. Back to play.

Having spent time, not in Afghanistan, but in the North West Frontier, I found the men, on the whole, to be respectful, considerate, intrigued and helpful. Intrigued at why I would be wandering around the mountains in the wrong clothing, baffled at why I wasn't married, but they offered hospitality because culturally, (and there are many cultures in that area, some where women are the head of the household,) they are kind, generous and lacking in the greed and corruption of the west.

But carry on using examples of a tiny tiny minority of extreme fanatics as a means to condemn an entire geographical region where men exist who are both more cultured and more humane than any I have ever encountered here in the UK.

NiceTabard · 17/01/2014 21:32

You are aware that men in countries where women are required to cover, have access to Western porn I assume? And even Western "family newspapers", if they wish?

Seems to me that there are plenty of accessible images of women and girls all over the place.

And yet still women get sexually assaulted and raped. It's just weird isn't it.

Probably women need to undress more and that will stop the men. Kind of like the Robin Thicke video? Fully dressed older creepy men, surrounded by an abundance of much younger naked submissive available girls.

That will stop rape and sexual assault, yes?

What age should girls have to stop wearing clothes I wonder? To allow boys and men to develop sexually, properly. Looking at Jimmy Saville et al, I guess maybe all girls over the age of about 10 should have to go naked? So as to ensure that male sexuality develops properly.

only makes sense, when you think about it.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 17/01/2014 21:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Routergirl · 17/01/2014 21:35

This guy is a journalist probably!!! PLEASE ignore!!!

Beth9009 · 17/01/2014 21:36

The 'rape myth' dogma is so hypocritical and full of contradictions.

On the one hand the way a woman dresses does not increase the likelihood of rape. But on the other, some men think that the way women dress means that they are 'up for it' and that this view needs to be tackled because it is dangerous.

I'm sorry, but both can't be correct. I'm going off topic a bit here, but some of you need to step away from your dogmas.

The truth is, how men see women DOES effect the likelihood of them sexually assaulting women. In my OPINION, a sexually liberated culture gives men and women a much more healthy outlook. Sexual violence is thus reduced.

OP posts:
FetchezLaVache · 17/01/2014 21:36

OP, what's with all the references to Islamic states? Do you think the opposite of having Page 3 is burqas all round? The opposite of having Page 3 is not having Page 3. You're the only one I see on this thread who's being reductive.

PacificDogwood · 17/01/2014 21:37

No, I don't support Page 3.

And absolutely nobody seems to be 'with you' on this one.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 17/01/2014 21:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beth9009 · 17/01/2014 21:39

FetchezLaVache Fri 17-Jan-14 21:36:26
OP, what's with all the references to Islamic states? Do you think the opposite of having Page 3 is burqas all round? The opposite of having Page 3 is not having Page 3. You're the only one I see on this thread who's being reductive.

Wanting to cover women up in burkhas and wanting to cover up women with bare chests is the same thing, but to different extents. Both are based on the idea of 'protecting society' and should be opposed by feminists.

OP posts:
SinisterSal · 17/01/2014 21:39

PortofinoRevisited Fri 17-Jan-14 21:28:05
Buffy - you have posted some fabulous stuff on this thread. I am envisaging the lurkers seeing the strong feminist argument vs the racist, misogynist one.
___

I'm sorry, racist??? Excuse me?

call me a misogynist all you like but RACIST? Racist???
For that I will not suffer!

SinisterSal · 17/01/2014 21:40

says it all Grin

BucksWannabee · 17/01/2014 21:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Routergirl · 17/01/2014 21:43

SinisterSal...you NAILED it!! He took offence at being called racist, but a woman hater...nah, not so much as a whimper!!

This guy SUCKS!! People, please don't engage. He is one sick, woman-hating MAN!

A LOSER, in other words!

PrincessPeashooter · 17/01/2014 21:43

I really hope the OP is a hairy handed trucker but if so they are playing a very very long game. Unfortunately as I know people exactly like her I can fully believe it.

Whilst I think your opinions are vile I feel desperately sorry for you OP. I think you've a very unhappy life up ahead. Don't get married he sounds awful. Get a job, stand on your own two feet and think about yourself rather than how to please a man. Your relationship sounds toxic, You come across as desperately immature and naive so it is certainly not a meeting of equals. The virulent hatred of the ex-wife, you don't work so lack independence and freedom, your references to living in 'his house,' you knowing not to spend too much as the ex was a spendthrift and he hated that, add in the sexual problems and it is a car crash waiting to happen. Let's be honest now you didn't come up with these opinions all on your own did you, these are the opinions of your fiancée, does he go to strip joints while he is away so he doesn't get frustrated and to encourage the liberated women?

Routergirl · 17/01/2014 21:44

Call me out on it, 'Beth'!!! Go for it!

Routergirl · 17/01/2014 21:46

Princess, the gal is a dude. Don't waste your time.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 17/01/2014 21:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 17/01/2014 21:48

The 'rape myth' dogma is so hypocritical and full of contradictions.

No, it isn't.

On the one hand the way a woman dresses does not increase the likelihood of rape. But on the other, some men think that the way women dress means that they are 'up for it' and that this view needs to be tackled because it is dangerous.

No, it does not say that.

It says: "Dressing attractively, or flirting, is never an invitation to rape. Rape is not a 'crime of passion' - it is an expression of power and control."

NiceTabard · 17/01/2014 21:50

"The 'rape myth' dogma is so hypocritical and full of contradictions.

On the one hand the way a woman dresses does not increase the likelihood of rape. But on the other, some men think that the way women dress means that they are 'up for it' and that this view needs to be tackled because it is dangerous.

I'm sorry, but both can't be correct. I'm going off topic a bit here, but some of you need to step away from your dogmas.

The truth is, how men see women DOES effect the likelihood of them sexually assaulting women. In my OPINION, a sexually liberated culture gives men and women a much more healthy outlook. Sexual violence is thus reduced."

Right.

So girls' school uniform has been sexualised, in many ways, for decades.

Girls in school uniform have been considered "fair game" for cat-calls, groping, propositioning, grooming etc etc, for decades.

The feminists say, the fact that the girls are in school uniform, should signal to men that they are not to be approached. In practice the reverse is true, as school uniform is frequently fetishised, we live in a culture where (even after the recent scandals) "schoolgirls" are treated as being more grown-up than they are and out-of-line behaviour towards them is largely ignored. The answer is to change the attitudes of society and of the men doing this. That will take time. But the clothes themselves are irrelevant - a schoolgirl is just as likely to get unwanted attention (or worse) whether she is in trousers, a long skirt, a mid-length skirt or a skirt that is shorter. The skirt isn't the point. The age and sex of the child is the point.

Your solution to this is what, exactly? How do YOU want schoolgirls to dress, so that adult men will stop giving them unwanted attention & worse.

Interested in your response Smile

LurcioLovesFrankie · 17/01/2014 21:54

"she's actually a very intelligent but sadly misguided and perhaps misled young woman."

Buffy - sometimes you are too nice for your own good.

I have skimmed the thread. The OP comes across to me as holding deeply unpleasant, highly misogynist and racist views and frankly being thick as pigshit, albeit armed with a certain degree of low animal cunning. I'm still baffled as to why people are engaging. Surely there are better things to be doing. Frankly, picking my nose rates higher on my list of priorities than attempting to engage this twerp.

Routergirl · 17/01/2014 21:57

Buffy, I usually agree with you, on all that you say, but on this one, all I hear is Aerosmith....'DUDE LOOKS LIKE A LADY....'

tallwivglasses · 17/01/2014 21:57

I haven't had time to read the whole thread and I'm sorry if this has been posted before - I think it's really good: