Women delaying motherhood is worrying

[funnyvalentine]

The chief medical officer (herself a woman who had 2 kids in her 40s) says it's worrying that women are delaying motherhood:

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/10578227/Women-delaying-motherhood-is-worrying-issue-says-Britains-chief-doctor.html

On the one hand, 'men delaying fatherhood' isn't as much of a health issue. The issues are with a decline in female fertility and increased health risks to pregnancy. But men clearly play a big role in when women have children. So why is it always 'women delaying motherhood' as though it's a choice women make in a vacuum?

She is also concerned that many women are choosing not to have children. I'm at a loss to understand why not having children is a bad thing?

"Or that women should just get on and get pregnant when they want, regardless of what the man thinks?"

But that presumes a man.

And that's one of the things that's so annoying about the advice.

It's that women should race to get themselves pregnant but ONLY ONCE they have attained the status of ATTACHED WOMAN.

Surely the honest, non-ideological, medical advice to women would be:

If you are a woman and you know you want a child, I would say get on with it once you get to your mid-30s if you haven't already.

Why give advice that is specifically addressed at women but still leave in the part where she has to get a man to sanction her as worthy of reproduction.

If it's just about what is best for women, then what difference does it make whether she is in a relationship?

Surely if it's about women having babies at the right time, regardless of their circumstances, then a partner to have them with is as irrelevant as a good job?

"What they can't do and these articles don't acknowledge, is magic up a suitable and willing sperm donor at a biologically optimal time that coincides with a time that is suitable in terms of their financial stability."

But they absolutely CAN "magic up" a sperm donation.

And some do. But it's VERY taboo to just go ahead and take full control of your fertility in that way.

If these articles accepted that extremely possibly option, then they would make a bit more sense.

But they address themselves specifically to women who have a boyfriend.

Not even all women. Just the ones with a fella.

I'll have an extra 10 years too :)

Artetas, join you're right, I'd sort of wandered into assuming a committed male/female relationship setup. But especially in that situation, where you do need the father-to-be's agreement, I really don't see why the advice is aimed squarely at the woman! Why not advise the man in the partnership "remember that the risks to your partner and your potential child increase as she gets older, so get on with it"?

Well arguably if a lot of women are reaching the age of approved reproduction without a man sanctioning them for pregnancy, men are erasing fathers :o

Why not advise the man in the partnership "remember that the risks to your partner and your potential child increase as she gets older, so get on with it"?

I don't know, I'm kind of conflicted about this.

I think most men know perfectly well that women aren't fertile forever.

But they don't care very much, because they know they have other options if her time should run out.

So to me that advice sounds more like "Men: the woman you are with is running out of time, but don't sweat it because there will be a younger model around and willing whenever you decide to get around to it."

Which, let's be honest, is advice that many men are already very well familiar with.

I'm not sure there is one piece of advice on this that works for both men and women and I think it's fine for women to receive messages about their own fertility. As long as that advice isn't about scaring them or restricting their options.

I think if women were advised to go it alone if they got to, say, 35 and nobody was willing to get them up the duff that men would find themselves a lot less reticent about agreeing to TTC.

Join I take your point, but then they'd be a single mother and Everything That is Wrong with Society

In all seriousness (and I know this is a whole different feminist discussion in itself) I do think most women want to be in a committed relationship prior to having children. Once in that relationship, throwing it away for a theoretical child is a big step.

This article didn't go this far by any stretch, but I don't think the messaging to 'career women' that pops up regularly in the Mail etc. is purely aimed at women who are part of a heterosexual couple. I actually think it's worse than that: if a women if 30-something and single, then that's probably their fault too (because they were prioritising education / travel / partying / career / whatever).

YY. Go, Jodie Foster!

My original plan, formulated at 22yo, was to sort out a brilliant career and get impregnated by some genetically desirable bloke. I wouldn't tell the bloke (mean of me, but hey.) There was no mat leave in those days, and terrible provision for single mothers; it had to be brilliant career + baby. I nearly bloody did it, too. I sabotaged my plan by coupling up with a nasty man ... and was sub-fertile, I later discovered, so would have had to shag an awful lot of genetically desirable blokes (what a shame.)

40 years on, there's much better support for women having children, but the pressure to perform astonishing feats of life-balancing hasn't really changed. It still boils down to "Get a man, get pregnant, get a salary." This is why I want to see a full restructure of working practices, such that parenthood - by both sexes - is proactively encouraged & supported: mandated, even. I can't see any other way of levelling the playing field for women.

Sorry, I didn't mean I want to see parenthood mandated (that would be running backwards!) but fathers required to take 50% of parental responsibility - or 100% if solo.

get impregnated by some genetically desirable bloke. I wouldn't tell the bloke

All I wanna do is make looooove to you
One night of love, was all we knew :o

I do think most women want to be in a committed relationship prior to having children.

Sure they do. Just like many women want to be financially secure and ideally have some kind of job security before having children.

But neither of those things is a necessary requirement for having a child, and if women are being advised to forgo "a career" in the interests of early childbearing, then they should also be advised to forgo a "committed relationship" for the same reason.

I'm curious. So they want women to be looking to have children in their early 20's? Would that be those pesky women in the 18-25yo category that they're busily cutting all benefits for? The ones they claim should living at home, still going to school or working?? And precisely how does a solid relationship and a baby fit into that???

On one hand, they're saying they want people to be more stable and financially independent before having a baby, but then turning around and reversing it and saying have the baby when you're younger.

Who is they?who are you referring to in your elaborate conspiracy

&#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 WOMEN!
YOU CAN'T DO RIGHT FOR DOING WRONG
&#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 GET USED TO IT

&#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 &#160 &#160[THERE'S A DEAR]

for heaven's sake, it's not a conspiracy. It's simply conflicting information.

Patriarchal opinion formers, sm.

Hard to work out from a post in FWR, I know.

Oh Christ alive.public health info has you thumbing your conspiracy for beginners manual

wow. a bit overinvested in the argument there, sm?

Lol,as compared to the conspiratorial mutterings,the bold,the SHOUTING from others
Yea like wow indeed

I don't believe I said anything about a conspiracy. I said that the information being given to women from all quarters is conflicting.

Get a grip.

Keep up read the thread

I remember in my early 30's seeing a Bridget Jones Weekend which was basically a group of women in their late 30's and early 40's saying they could leave it as long as they like and use sperm donors, or adoption to get the children they wanted.

Having had kids in my late 30's and 40's. I was lucky. I dont think women should leave it that long and then expect to get pregnant that easily. If you dont meet the right person - well isnt that just bad luck. If you are late 30's and TTC its not a right to have a baby.

I didnt get married until mid 30's. I wasnt sure I wanted children and if they hadnt turned up - well I would have to have lived with this. Its not 'societys' fault that you didnt meet what you felt was the right person

Its not 'societys' fault that you didnt meet what you felt was the right person

But it might be society's fault that women have to choose. I am rapidly approaching 40 and would say that I have chosen to remain childfree but the reality is the choice was my career/caring for elderly parents or having children of my own. Wasn't down to lack of willing partner but about the fact that I faced a decision that I don't see any of my male peers facing.

So now, having categorically put children off the agenda with no particular heartache, society now:-

pities me for being barren - doesn't pity men

pities me for being unable to find a man - doesn't pity men

judges me for leaving it too late - doesn't judge men

condemns me for not providing the next generation - again, okay for men

renders me invisible as a woman as I have no worth - again, doesn't apply to men

renders me useless as not only does my lack of apparent fertility demean my value as a woman but so does my age and diminishing sexual attraction. I am no longer a nubile attractive fertile young woman but nor am I earthly and wise with responsibility for raising the next generation.

As a older woman, you are invisible. As an older, childfree woman, you are invisible and of no value to society.

In terms of my career and personal life, I am only now at the stage where children would be possible but I find myself not wanting them and being absolutely okay with that but women generally aren't valued for any financial contribution to society, they're not valued for providing employment, they are not praised for reaching the top tiers of their profession, they are regarded as being cold and soulless if they do so without having also raised a family.

I see so many women around me, my age, my social circle, having children, not because they want them more than anything but because they are under pressure to have them with the message that time is running out. Without exception, every one of my friends who has had children later in life, regrets their choice to do so. They miss their life, they are in shock at the impact it had on their career, they had no desire to be older parents, they all, to a woman, admit that they wish they had done it when younger. They see old age and retirement as a time when they will still be child raising and under significant financial pressure. Do you really think that was their choice and had nothing to do with that my generation of women being told NOT to have children young, to establish their careers, to get financially secure, to find the perfect partner. That way they would get to have it all. And it was bollocks because men don't get the same message.

So your post about women not finding the right man is patronising tosh. The right man is a very small part of women making the decision to have children.

Until men take an active and equal role in child rearing, women are still vulnerable unless they have an established and family friendly career first so no wonder so many women 'choose' to wait.

Do you all get in a stew about cholesterol,diet,exercise advice.is that patriarchal too?
It's dissemination of information that already in domain.
If one wants to convolute patriarchal involvement from public health info,well so be it

Society doesn't compel anyone to chose career or child,we have volition,choice.society influences choices it doesn't absolutely impose one way only
We make choices based on individual preference,finance,culture,class
And just as some chose to wait til 30s,some don't
Some chose to work others chose to be housewife