I'm a newly married man and agonising about what we should do about surnames.

[MaleMan81]

My wife and I got married a few months ago. She hasn't changed her surname to mine, and I've been saying to her that I'm not sure I agree with the idea of a woman taking a man's name. And that's how we have left it.

I think we both would be very happy with this decision if children were never going to be part of the picture.

However she recently became pregnant, and although we are both thrilled and excited, I have started to think that if we are going to become a family it would make us all feel more united if we both had the same surname as our child. My wife agrees with this.

So the options as I see it are - she takes my name, I take her name, or we do that terribly modern thing of meshing together our surnames to make a whole new name!

Now I would like to think of myself as a thoroughly enlightened man who is a feminist, but the problem I'm having is that her surname sounds a tiny bit silly, and is the kind of name that would be gift to bullies in any environment. I don't want to write her actual name, but a surname that would provoke a similar reaction might be something like "Awkwardly". What is worse is that my first name rhymes with her surname, which would give me a name which would at the very least cause raised eyebrows I imagine.

In comparison my surname is more normal with no real meaning, and is something along the lines of "Bailey".

The only meshed version of our names that really scans property actually sounds even worse than her surname, and not something I would want to saddle a child with.

So that leaves me favouring my own surname simply because it sounds more normal, and works better with both our first names. And to be fair my wife has said that she was a bit embarassed by her surname as she was growing up, although now she is fine with it.

I would like to think that if it was her with the normal sounding name and me with the odd name, then I would be happy to change my name to hers. But I'm worried that subconsciously I am simply imposing my name on her as is "tradition" and automatically favouring my own name.

I am also aware that her taking my name is the "normal" and "expected" thing to happen, and is the easy option in terms of acceptance in society. And I must also admit that I am generally a quiet person who doesn't like to draw attention to myself - which is exactly what would happen if I did what is seen (by society at least) as something reasonably radical like taking my wife's name.

I'm just confused and going around in circles now. What have others done?

In a way I do like the idea of girls being given their mothers' surname and boys their fathers'. But it would make a strange split in families, with mothers and daughters on one side and fathers and sons on the other.

It's worked in Iceland for generations.

I have a Scottish surname that doesn't go with my Eastern European first name. My partner has a simple, short, common surname but I won't change my name when I get married because it is my name, my identity that I have grown up with! We will both keep our own names because we don't own each other.

Not true about Iceland there. Most children do grow up with a surname that's a patronymic (daughter of or son of someone) which adds their father's name to theirs. Matronymics are much less common, but they're sometimes used when a child grows up without much connection to the father. Someone said (was it here?) that young people in Iceland recently have been using both a patronymic and a matronymic, so as to recognise both of their parents.

Russians use patronymics too, but for them it's a middle name. Family names are like other European names, passed down from the father.

Where I live, all women keep their own surnames on marriage. You have to make a special application to the court to change your surname if you want to for any reason, which may or may not be granted. When I got married, DH and I had to sign an agreement before the marriage could be officially recognised, stating what would be the surname of any eventual children of the marriage. You could choose either, but then that agreement has to be adhered to, you can't change your mind later on without involving the court.

It's very rare to go specially to court to change your surname, the only person I know of who has done so is very famous and probably did it as a publicity stunt and because she can easily afford the legal fees

I think it's wrong that women can simply write their new name on the marriage certificate and it changes but men have to do it through deed pole. I think we should all have to do it through deed pole. I wonder how it will work with same sex marriage.

Thants, nobody in the UK needs a deed poll to change their name. Having some sort of certificate makes it easier with banks & suchlike, but a marrying couple may reverse the tradition if they wish, and the marriage cert will serve as proof :)

... and the bride doesn't write her new name on the marriage cert! I thought it didn't seem right, but had to go and look at my own to check!

That's not what the registrat told us, garlic.

They claimed that if DH wanted to assume my name, the marriage cert wouldn't be taken as proof of ID, but it would be for me.

(I have many issues with the registrar who married us, btw.)

That's right Garlic - deed polls are entirely unnecessary and my DH changed his name very simply without one. You just need to write a statement that you are renouncing previous names and this is your new name, and get that document formally witnessed. We had the (home-made) document on the table at the same time as the marriage certificate and did it all at the same time. It is still different for a woman though - your marriage certificate is basically a carte-blanche to decide your own name post-wedding, which is quite cool. I agree with Thants that it should be the same for men and women though - it would be easiest to just incorporate a standard name-change wording onto the bottom of the marriage certificate and have both spouses formally declare their names (whether changed or kept the same) as part of the same process.

What happens if you're a man and want to use both names, the way women can?

I didn't realise there was a technical difference for men & women! Agreed, a standard bit on the marriage cert seems a remarkably simple solution. Anybody care enough about this to start a petition?

Thinking about that a bit more (I'm waiting for the cat to come in!) ... Under English law, it is sufficient to "let it be known" that you've changed your name. No documentation is legally required. An affidavit, as you described, Iris, is advisable because so many institutions these days want proof of your name change.

A marriage certificate isn't actually proof, since it nowhere records your altered name. But convention - especially the convention of banks, with whom I have a HUGE gripe on this issue - says that the cert will do for proof that Miss Hername has now become Mrs Hisname. The awkward registrars were actually giving you the info as required by fucking banks.

All the same, it would make life more straightforward if the affidavit was on the marriage cert :)

I had an easy to spell, known name as my surname (which it is rarer as) but it was a boys name and I had had enough of being teased about it when I was younger. No, just because I'm flat chested (sadly no longer) and have a boys name doesn't mean I am a boy so yes I had one of those 'pesky women's names'.
Someone said earlier in the thread about betting brothers didn't change those pesky names. No mine didn't because he never got teased about being boy what with being a boy and all. My sil did actually change to it which I told her I think she was nuts for doing, luckily they've had two sons.
My daughter on the other hand never gets teased about her bog standard surname which my pils actually chose together because fil's original surname was so horrible. It's only a generation old and though it's dh's side of the family it's from a couple I really love and respect.
People do have all sorts of reasons for choosing the options they do but comments such as those ones about pesky womens names are just rude because they're assuming that people haven't thought about it and are just making excuses.

Jayne, you thought about it but, as you say, your SIL went with "tradition" even though that gave her a more awkward name and it doesn't sound like your BIL considered taking her name though he was the one with the pesky name! Good on your PILs for inventing their own name!

I didn't change my name. I still had to prove that I was married to change my title.

I thought that was the biggest load of bollocks going.

Prove to who? And do you mean change your title from miss to mrs? You can just do that, surely?

The doctrine- to be fair her (sil's) name before was pretty horrendous so she probably saw it as an improvement. I think she got teased about hers too. Of course now she's got db's surname she's an adult so not likely to suffer the teasing that I got with the boys name and wont associate it as such.

garlic - yes, I know that.

curlew Mon 13-Jan-14 11:11:24
Prove to who? And do you mean change your title from miss to mrs? You can just do that, surely?

Yes, I had to show my marriage certificate. They wouldn't allow me to change it without proof! I don't understand why.

They pulled face when I did too. I got married abroad so my marriage cert is not a British one.

Show it to whom, RTB? Who wouldn't allow you?

MaleMan81 - I like you, I hope you stick around :)

In your situation we would

Me - keep my surname officially as part of my middle name but use it occasionally if I want to as my surname.
Him - Keep his surname as it is
Children - use his name

I know lots of people in families all have different names and it doesn't matter one bit, but for me, if I was setting out in the way you are, I would like them to be the same if possible.

The bank. I couldn't change my title without proving I was married.

I have no idea why they need to know this. Its not like my DH ever had to do so.

I could understand if I changed my name but I didn't. I was very angry about it tbh.

Thanks, RTB. Yes, banks do seem fond of enforcing outmoded conventions on women! Mine wouldn't let me use my maiden name on my personal current account, as we had a joint account in "Mr & Mrs Hisname" (I had specified I wanted Ms, btw,) and then wouldn't let me change back to my maiden name until I could show them a decree nisi. I changed banks. Fuckers

Cor, thanks Chipping!

After more conversation with my wife, I think our decision is for her to start using Ms or Mrs (mood depending!) Myname on all family related matters, eg on all the medical forms for the pregnancy, and for her to stay as Ms Hername at work, and then just start changing other official things if and when she wants to and the time arises. If you can get both names put on your passport and driving licence then that would be good.

This decision was in preparation the first midwife appointment and her putting the surname we decided onto the forms. Well the appointment was today and it still caused some confusion as she wrote Ms Myname, and then signed Ms Hername as she hadn't practiced a new signature!

It's all very new, but we are both just pleased that we have made a decision we are both happy with.

So.. Now first names for baby?..!